Some questions on front mechanics (reserves, support brigades, and flanks)

[NoClass]

Having searched the forums, read several manuals and strategy guides, and played the game extensively, I'm still not sure how frontage mechanics work (better yet, why they work the way they do) with respect to reserves, support brigades, and flanks.


Question 1: -Do support brigades actually fight on the front?
-Under what circumstances are they able to shoot or take damage? (they often seem invulnerable)

Discussion 1: When you attack with a stack, divisions that can fit are put on the front, and the rest into reserve. Many manuals/strategy guides refer to brigades being on the front, and says that support brigades stay in reserve. However, the battle screen shows entire divisions being on the front. Of course, support divisions take up 0 front width anyway, but it's not clear if they're fighting. Also, I've noticed that the support brigades of a division seem to take far less damage than the combat brigades and sometimes none at all.

***ANSWERED***
By Darkrenown below. Thanks!

Question 2: -When your attack is flanked, how does the game determine which divisions/brigades defend your province?
-Do all of your attacking divisions get the multiple combat penalty even if they're not on the defense front? (they seem to)
-Why don't idle divisions in a province take up the front during a flank defense? (they don't seem to very often)
-If idle units manage to defend the flank, do they avoid the multiple combat penalty (I think they do, which is cool, but shouldn't consideration be given to the fact that it's a more mobile sort of defense?).

Discussion 2: It seems like, when you're flanked, that your divs that are already attacking go straight to the front of the flank defense, even if you've got a bunch of units in reserve or have a bunch of idle in the province. We could probably argue for days about modeling flanking strategy (i.e. attacking attackers and avoiding static defenses), and mobile reserves (i.e. units on standby to take the brunt of a counterattack).



Okay, that was long, but if any of the experts around here can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.




***UPDATE***
Follow up question: What is the purpose of reserves, anyway?

Discussion: I suppose its nice to have your reserves automatically join the front as disorganized fighting units fall back. Nevertheless, I rarely attack with more divisions than can fit on the front. That way I avoid the stacking penalty. As those divisions weaken, I manually add reinforcements. Is there any disadvantage to doing it this way?

 

[Darkrenown]

Q1: Divisions fight as a whole, but pre-1.4 damage to the division was shared with the brigades within it bases on their size, so support brigades took less damage to simulate them being in the rear areas. In 1.4 damage is shared equally between all brigades.

 

[NoClass]

Thanks for the answer! That's very definitive.

THB, I kind of like the pre-1.4 damage model better. Unless there is chaos and confusion, most support brigades (especially those which do their jobs behind the lines) would generally be protected from damage.

 

[Koeppen]

As those divisions weaken, I manually add reinforcements. Is there any disadvantage to doing it this way?

AFAIK the only disadvantage is the micro-management.

 

[NoClass]

AFAIK the only disadvantage is the micro-management.

It seems like having dedicated reserves in an attack should give you all sorts of advantages in certain contingencies, like exploiting the effects of combat events (especially front changes), defending against flank attacks, and smoother reinforcement.

The last one might actually be true, but I have NO idea how the reinforcement mechanics work.

 

[unmerged(177629)]

Reinforcement during combat are influenced by unit's orga, skill of the leader on the corp HQ it depends of, minister trait and land doctrine that you have to unlock. I also believe the infra of the provinces you're onto plays its role but i'm unsure. (by reinforcement i mean: having a units moving from its reserve position to the front one)
Which units get at the front at the beginning of the battle only relies on unit's orga. And it will fill the front up to max place there is. Units which are already into a battle, even in reserve position will suffer a multiple combat malus (but only for the damage they take from that 2nd battle)
Let's say the average province witdh is 10, you can usually get a max of 3 INF div at the front if there is no combat event running. So if you want to attack from a province and still be able to defend with the maximum efficiency you need 3 div on that provinces doing nothing but digging themselves. As the attacking ones will start losing orga the 3 u didn't move will get by default to the front at the beginning, the attacking ones will get into reserves and will come to the front only if one of ur defensive retreats or if the front get larger (event or attack from another province) and so are less likely to lose orga from both their attacking battle and their defending one including the -50% modifier.

 

[NoClass]

Reinforcement during combat are influenced by unit's orga, skill of the leader on the corp HQ it depends of, minister trait and land doctrine that you have to unlock. I also believe the infra of the provinces you're onto plays its role but i'm unsure. (by reinforcement i mean: having a units moving from its reserve position to the front one)

Yeah, the tooltip on every reserve div has it's "reinforce chance" and 'a bunch of stuff that affect's this chance, but isn't quantified. Since the reinforce chance seems really low compared to the likelihood that a reserve division will actually move to an open spot on the front, I doubt the number in the tooltip is accurate.

Let's say the average province witdh is 10, you can usually get a max of 3 INF div at the front if there is no combat event running. So if you want to attack from a province and still be able to defend with the maximum efficiency you need 3 div on that provinces doing nothing but digging themselves. As the attacking ones will start losing orga the 3 u didn't move will get by default to the front at the beginning, the attacking ones will get into reserves and will come to the front only if one of ur defensive retreats or if the front get larger (event or attack from another province) and so are less likely to lose orga from both their attacking battle and their defending one including the -50% modifier.

That's kind of the way I understand it, but it seems like my attacking units tend to be on the defensive front when flanked. That may be because the non-attackers are still low org from previous battles, but I'll have to play a bit to see what actually happens.

 

[cfp]

There's something of a (perhaps un-intentional?) beneficial side effect to having units in reserve during battle: They gain precious experience, and so do their commanders, and their commanders' commanders, etc. It's a bit gamey to do so, but I can't help doing it with the pain in the rear maginot line forts. It's just so easy to get several generals an extra skill point (in a single battle, no less) and a fair chunk of xp for the unit itself.


I suppose all this experience comes at the cost of manpower, since adding on the extra divs give me combat penalties, but I feel it's worth a reasonable amount of trade-off.

Just for clarification - I don't know if Semper fi will change this one bit.

Oh, btw I thought all territories had a base ten frontage? I'm actually a bit confused on this point myself, as it makes little sense. For the record, a ten combat frontage will allow you to get 4 inf divs in, so long as they only have 3 frontline brigaes each. I only make "square" paratroop/marine formations, personally.