Some questions about playing Byzantium

[G_Morgan]

Hi Guys,

My first post here and I want to ask some questions about playing our favourite Roman Empire. I've started a game and managed to do something which seems a tad exploitative to give me an edge. Naples starts off pretty much immediately at war with Epirus. I immediately offered an alliance to Naples, split the army in Thrace, made my emperor into a general of that army, moved my fleet out, declared war on Epirus and managed to disembark a force in Epirus before Naples. This naturally gave me control of the siege and a free province to start with.

Ok what seems like a reasonable if gamey start. From there it all goes to pieces. I tried to declare on Achaea. I quickly subdued and annexed them but seemed to be at war with the entirety of Italy and some randoms like Switzerland. Naples for some reason declares war on France before this which naturally ends our alliance. At one point I had 29% war score* and Venice would not accept peace even if I gave them everything. Also there was no "this is a good offer and people will cry if it is turned down" message. The real problem is I can't get my army back to Thrace to smash the multicultural doom stack that forms there from the 10 minor alliance determined to stop the rise of the second Rome. Nothing I do seems to create a win here. On the sea I'm out numbered about 10-1. If I can't force a peace at 25-30% I don't think Thrace can hold off long enough for me to get it higher. The Ottomans won't accept military access.

I've got the save from before I declared war on Achaea. I think I need to approach this differently. Is there any way to stop me getting piled on by all the Italian minors if I declare war? None of my allies seem to honour their agreements in this circumstance so I can't force Venice out by scaring them with the sudden introduction of another enemy. Venice also seems completely happy to watch Athens rot and see men die by the 10s of thousands without even thinking that maybe peace is the way forward (hell not even just peace, I offered all my money, concession of defeat, even all my territory).

Should I be trying something else? Maybe the trick with blockading the strait and abusing the Ottomans while they fight Timmy?

Thanks in advance.

*conquest of both Albania and Athens and a 20-1 ratio on casualties from picking off endless little stacks hitting western Greece.

 

[unmerged(463662)]

You're doing ok,

Probably best to leave the Greek minors for now, as they are guaranteed by every single major power in the game, hence the dogpile.

If you want to start again, declare war on Candar day 1. It's richer than Epirus, and has ottoman units that you can use.

If you can build a big enough fleet to block the strait, it's worth doing, still possible I think in 5.1.

But the most important thing is, you are small, so duck and weave and kick the bigger nations in the shins when they're getting dogpiled by others.

 

[Gnorf]

After snatching Epirus, inflate like crazy trying to build a bigger navy than the Turks, then while they're busy fighting the hordes in Anatolia, blockade the strait and siege all their Greek provinces.

 

[G_Morgan]

Ok I managed to blockade the Ottomans and forced them to cede Larissa, Kozani, Macedonia, Nis, Bulgaria, Burgas and Silistria. The trick was to make sure their Serbian allies were also the wrong side of the sea.

First thing that happened. Golden Horde appears at your borders!

Ah well at least we can see Byzantium on the map now. With my new force limits I'm confident I can make Venice feel miserable provided I can give the Horde enough of a black eye to learn not to mess with the sort of Roman Empire!

I can almost afford my navy given the new acquisitions.

Thanks guys. It is amazing how well this actually works. You need to wait them out a bit for their WE to go up and stab hit them a bit but they literally gave me everything other than their capital on this side.

 

[unmerged(463662)]

cool, congrats. now it's plain sailing.

 

[Gnorf]

Ok I managed to blockade the Ottomans and forced them to cede Larissa, Kozani, Macedonia, Nis, Bulgaria, Burgas and Silistria. The trick was to make sure their Serbian allies were also the wrong side of the sea.

First thing that happened. Golden Horde appears at your borders!

Ah well at least we can see Byzantium on the map now. With my new force limits I'm confident I can make Venice feel miserable provided I can give the Horde enough of a black eye to learn not to mess with the sort of Roman Empire!

I can almost afford my navy given the new acquisitions.

Thanks guys. It is amazing how well this actually works. You need to wait them out a bit for their WE to go up and stab hit them a bit but they literally gave me everything other than their capital on this side.

Exactly. To succeed as Byzantium you gotta follow a script in the beginning. Taking anything from southern Greece might give you some trouble though, since the crusader states are Catholic and attacking them would invoke the wrath of France/Castille/England. I usually focus on retaking Anatolia first then replace my galleys with big ships so I can blockade the catholic navies.

 

[G_Morgan]

I've just followed this up with my planned war with Venice. Milan actually was going to honour the alliance so I pressed ahead. It went very similarly to before. I was running around like a lunatic smashing mini stacks, sieging provinces and building up a huge war score. The difference this time is land access to Thrace. No defeat by default because I couldn't defend my capital. Eventually Venice went from refusing all deals to giving me Albania, Athens and Noxos. We now officially make more money than the Ottoman Empire! Byzantium big!

I also took a two province minor directly north of Greece. Can't recall the name. Begins with W.

Just need to westernise. Then I will teach a lot of Catholics and Muslims some manners.

 

[unmerged(463662)]

wallachia.

 

[DABegley]

I think it is too late for this advice but even after you annex the European Otto provinces you should avoid any border with the Golden Horde. Even at that size the GH can steam-roll you. So next time you play the Byz and get a good settlement with the Ottos let them keep Silistria. It's not rich enough that it's much of a loss and it keeps the gH off your back.

 

[G_Morgan]

I managed to get a peace with golden horde with a concession but no tribute. We fought each other to a stand still but they probably would have beaten me eventually.

I took the 5 years to consolidate and launch the war to finish the Ottomans. Same trick worked again only this time the fight would have been even if fair. I've absorbed the entire OE and erased them from history. From there I started on all the Muslim minors in Anatolia.

From here I'm pretty much steam rolling people. I've secured every Byzantium core other than Kaffa which borders Golden Horde. Hungary drove back the GH from my borders but managed to slice off a nice province I stole. I've driven the Mamluks out of Asia and taken Jerusalem. Timmies are pushed into TI beyond Persia. I've just taken Medina from a minor horde. All going well now. Soon the war to take Alexandria and another to take Mecca (why not?). Just need to make Castille lose enough resources so that it realises that war with the Roman Empire is a bad idea. Cyprus is Roman my Spanish friends. For that matter so is Spain.

Eventually the plan is to destroy Venice, seize Naples, dismantle the pretender empire and take Rome to restore the Pentarchy. Then see just how much of Rome I can restore.

It seems a little too easy. The sheer quantity of cores means you can be in perpetual war for 40 years without taking an infamy or stability hit. I was top of the income chart before the year Byzantium actually fell in. Thrace is a godly province as well.

 

[amirberner]

it is too easy only if you know what to do from the start, exploit every opportunity and every gamey advantage you can get.
that's why you never see an AI controlled Byzantine Empire (and I mean Empire, not 2 islands that revolted and nobody was too keen on getting them back)