Some observtions about the US and UK's international relationships

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RMS Gigantic

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While watching the last World War Wednesday of 2015, there were a precious few seconds where the US's and Canada's diplomacy screens were shown. From these, I noticed a couple of interesting things that have yet to be covered in the developer diaries.

First up, the United States:

d5610a45a282578c73f19d93865bff11.jpg


We already know that the Philippines is an American puppet (as shown by the neat little pawn icon), and we were further told in the developer diary that the US guarantees the independence of every nation in North and South America.

... But look again, closer this time.

With the US selected here, the US and its territories have a light green highlight, but notice that Mexico, Haiti, Cuba, Handuras, and the other independent nations have a DARK green highlight. Closer inspection also shows that European colonial possessions (Belize, Bahamas, Jamaica, French and British Guyana, and Suriname) aren't highlighted at all. From this, we can infer that those dark green highlights are the nations that the US has guaranteed the independence of.

But now here's the interesting part: Canada isn't highlighted. You can see up there that Canada blends right in with the British possessions of Labrador and Newfoundland!

Why is this? Well, it looks like it's because the Commonwealth is represented somehow in the game, as shown below in this screenshot of Canada's diplomacy screen. I don't know the meaning of the icon that is tying all of the commonwealths together, since I haven't played previous HoI games and Great Britain hasn't had a developer diary yet; all I know is that it's neither the puppet state icon nor the guarantee independence icon, since both of those were shown in the US screenshot above.

f9528d52958f7df4cd96a8d21e39a5af.jpg


What I DO know is that this is great news for me: I intend to play as the US and execute War Plan Red in virtually every playthrough of the game I perform. After the developer diary, I feared two things: 1) I would need to break a guarantee with Canada, which would cost political power and perhaps stability etc., before I could enact my plans. 2) Canada might not have ties with Great Britain if it's independent and not a part of the allies, which would mean that declaring war on Great Britain followed by an invasion of Canada might cost me some kind of penalty. With the revelation that the US doesn't guarantee Canada's independence and that Canada has some form of commonwealth ties, however, that means that I am free to use that political power on more important matters, like improving my relations with Japan so that they won't attack me while I fight the entire British Empire! (After all, I want War Plan Red, not War Plan Red-Orange!) Not only that, but if Canada has ties to Great Britain, then I can enact War Plan Red as it was historically planned without fears of excessive penalties!
 
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BBBD316

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Well if it is the allies it excludes France.
 

calebmarkle

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Well if it is the allies it excludes France.
The French don't start in the Allies. For HOI3 they started in the Allies, but now they have their own choices. They can go for allies and join the UK or they can go for the little entente as their own faction and ally with Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Romania.
 

BBBD316

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Hmmmm, the French certainly tied their diplomatic response in the the time from to the UK's so I would prefer that they are nominally in the Allies and either confirm their status within or choose to leave.

The French were constantly seeking for the UK to be more aggressive or be the ones to lead and then follow that position.
 

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Good detective work there, RMS :) . Love reading posts like that.
 
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Axe99

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Well spotted RMS :). It may be that the UK thing is an alliance rather than a Commonweatlh type of semi-faction (technically it should probably be a faction, but it'd be odd in terms of labels if other nations joined the Commonwealth just because of WW2, and the US would probably stay out on principle ;)), but would be very cool if it was.
 

RMS Gigantic

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I suspect that is showing Allies rather than commonwealth. All these countries are allies in 1936.
Notice, however, that it's 1938. Shouldn't Poland and France be there as well if they're allies, since those two are allies of Great Britain? Unless Britain has multiple groups of allies? I suppose the Commonwealth might be its own faction, with Britain, France. and Poland being a different faction, which would explain this.

More of an assumption than an inference.
No, it's an inference. My evidence comes from the USA's Developer Diary, where it was explicitly stated that the US guarantees the independence of every nation in the Americas, which would certainly be shown on the diplomacy among the US's relationships, since 1) there's only two categories shown and the puppet status of Puerto Rico is shown, and 2) on Canada's screen, Great Britain gets highlighted since Canada has a relationship to them; it would stand to reason that if Canada's international relationships get highlighted, so too should the US's, which means that there should be SOME indicator for the nations that the US has guaranteed the independence of. The most probable candidates are all highlighted in dark green, so it can be inferred that dark green means guarantees of independence.
 
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Axe99

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Notice, however, that it's 1938. Shouldn't Poland and France be there as well if they're allies, since those two are allies of Great Britain? Unless Britain has multiple groups of allies.

That's the Canadian screen though, isn't it, rather than the British one, so perhaps Canada is only allied to the rest of the Commonwealth, but Britain has other allies?
 
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RMS Gigantic

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That's the Canadian screen though, isn't it, rather than the British one, so perhaps Canada is only allied to the rest of the Commonwealth, but Britain has other allies?
Yeah, you're right, I later remembered that factions were a thing and edited my post to reflect my later realization. Interesting that "commonwealth" is apparently its own faction!

Groovy Sandbox non historical option man, how do you turn that off ;)

If you're talking about the US's president, apparently that was the result of Roosevelt dying. They joked a little bit about how that "broke history" during the stream.
 

RMS Gigantic

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Here's another thing I found from the same video. Consider it a bonus:

e40ddebfdaf81c2a9376fc0358f17697.png


That tiny little bright green band in the middle of an otherwise dark green Panama is the Panama Canal Zone, which belongs to the United States. I think this might be the first footage we have where this province can be individually identified.

While on the topic of this portion of the map, why do Paradox games never have the British Virgin Islands?
 
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