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some idea's on unit models.

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TheFlemishDuck

TheFlemishDuck

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Well i checked the current state of the mod ,and seeing that this is an Aplha version i understand that there is still a lot of work ,but it looks fairly good work ATM.

Now ,vehicle models:

These days there are really not much big producers of advanced fighting vehicle's ,and most other country's use imported vehicle's made by big exporters like US ,France ,UK and afcourse foremost Russia.

Because of this ,you should only make a few major vehicle typ's lists realy ,and most country's should use one of the country of wich they import most ,and most of the time this is Russia.

Tanks

My idea would be that in this modern world an abrevation of Light tank would be an IFV (infantry fighting vehicle) and a Medium tank a MBT (main battle tank) ,heavy tanks then being mostly upgrades really (or fictional stuff)

For Russia:
Basic light tank: BMP1
Improved light tank: BMP2
Advanced light tank: BMP3
Basic medium tank: T55
Improved medium tank: T72
Advanced medium tank: T80
Basic heavy tank: T13 black eagle (russia is the only one really in this world that has something you could consider a heavy tank)
Other heavvy tanks: ?

Note that this should serve as template for most country's around the world ,bmp's ,T55's and t72's are extremely widespread

For US:
Basic light tank: m113
improved ligh tank: M2a1 (old Bradly)
Advanced light tank: M2A2 (modern Bradley)
Basic medium tank: M60
improved medium tank: m1a1 (older Abrams)
Advanced medium tank: M1a2 (newer abrams)
heavy tanks: ?

For Israel:
Same as US armor however with a few changes:
Basic light tank: zelda (m113 variant)
Basic medium tank: Sabra (m60 variant)
improved medium tank: Merkhava mk3
advanced medium tank: merkhava 4

for france:
basic light tank: VAB
improved light tank: AMX10P
Advanced light tank: Giat VBCI
improved medium tank: Leclerc
other tanks: (need to search for more info)

for Germany:
Basic light tank: fuch's 2
improved Light tank: Puma IFV
Improved medium tank: leopard 2
other tanks: (need to search more info)

for UK:
basic light tank: scimmitar
improved Light tank: Warrior
Advanced light tank: stormer 30
Advanced medium tank: Challenger 2 (due to it's quality the Challenger 2 deserve's the advanced tag)

For Italy:
Basic light tank: Puma (not same as german one)
improved Light tank: Centauro
Advanced light tank: Dardo Hitfist
Improved medium tank: Ariete

Note: this is just some input ,take it as you want.Also more models coul be added.
i should note that more country's produce unique material ,some european one's like Spain ,Sweden ,turkey ,Austria ,Switserlan etc have some own made vehicle's ,and then there are also country's likeSouth Africa , China and Japan ,China uses a lot of Russian material but has some unique ones to ,Japan make's almost all their models unique ,and most have a name beginning with "TYPE" (for ex. type 68) followed by a number ,i can delf in deeper on that.

Aircraft:

Tricky here is that in this modern day you have plane's and most importantly also helicopter's ,and these helicopters have become a vital part of the battlefield. Another thing is that these days Bombing missions are usually mde by multirole fighters rather than real bomber's.As thus i would minly keep the fighter section for real fighters and mulitirole one's (including stealth bombers for ex) ,while the bomber section for heavy bomber's and helicopter's.

again by country:

Russia:
basic attack helicopter: Mi24 hind
Improved attack helicopter: Ka-50 Black Shark

USA:
Basic attack helicopter: Ah1 cobra
Improved attack helicopter: Ah64 Appache
advanced attack helicopter: Rah-66 commanche

italy:
basic attack heli: A129

germany:
basic attack heli: Tiger AH

Afcourse there are more models wich i can't find now ,Russia has also a experimental advanced attack heli (commanche like) but i forgot the name ,more research can be done.
Most country's however will use imported models

(list doesn't include support heli's ,will be added later)

For now ,that's part 1 of the list ,later up are mainly plane type's,i will also try to post a list of most country's in the world on what type of vehicle's they import.Hope this first little list can give you guys an idea.
 
Models

Will not be more classical?

Basic Lt Armor 37mm
Basic Lt Armor 75mm
Basic Lt Armor 90mm

Imp Lt Armor 75mm
Imp Lt Armor 90mm
Imp Lt Armor 105mm

Adv Lt Armor 90mm
Adv Lt Armor 105mm
Adv Lt Armor 120mm

And so...

BTW, the MBT are heavy tanks ;)
 
Well, I built a different system than paradox originally had. As most tanks of today are MBTs, I just made light MBTs (some MBTs can be equipped with 105mm grenades) and MBTs (120mm/125mm). Then I placed them in category according to their year. Check the comments and suggestions thread to see my buildup as of now.
There are many different ways to approach this, and this is my approach, so many may not like it. But it's better to have a bad model-system than having none at all. And of course; it's only alpha yet, so it can be changed.

Anyways, thanks for the info, theflemishduck! I had USA figured, but countried like Italy and Israel etc are hard to find, so your information will come handy.
Keep the ideas coming, people, we need input :)

EDIT: Also, try to keep ideas/contributions in one of the sticky threads like 1.01 general discussion or the general comments and suggestions thread etc. We want to keep this thing tidy. Thank you
 
I didn't list the normal MBT as heavy tank because of the Russian Black Eagle ,wich is the most modern tank to this date and far heavier than an T80 or Abrams.

An important note ,virtually every modern MBT in this world (except from russian) use the same gun of a same manufacturere ,namely the 120MM smoothbore made in germany ,it's such a succesfull gun.

I did really want to include the IFV as it is a vital part of the battlefield these days ,some would call this unit a Mech but mech's are more like APC's. (armored personel carriers) the difference with an APC and IFV is that usually APC's are armed with just an MG (like WWII halftrack's) while an IFV is usally armed with 30mm fastshooting cannon ,an MG and more importantly guided AT rockets of various type's depending on IFV age. (some of these AT rockets can blast away an Abrams in virtually 1 shot ,or atleast render it useless)

One could also note that these IFV's should fall under assault guns or SP AT guns ,however usually for this APC's are used with mounted arnement on it of type's AT rockets or AP guns ,these AP's however usually only use one weapon system (like WW halftracks) while a IFV usually has a range of weapon systems) ,a AT mech would more like be a Humvee with an AT system on top.

But afcourse ,as i said im just giving my oppinion ,it doesn't have to be this way but i think it would be the most realistic ,i hope atleast that the modern omni present on the battlefield IFV is included ingame.
 
what countries?
all of them!

We don't need much statistics of them. The model structre can't make seperate statistics for each tank. Only give a country's main MBT (or light MBT if it can use a 105mm gun) and when it was made. Heh, it will make it a lot less realistic, but that's not my fault.
 
Tanks

Well, here goes

North America:
Canada MBT= Leopard 1C, LTk= ??? APC= M113, IFV= ???

USA MBT= M1/A1/A2 LTk= M551??? APC=M113 IFV=M2A1/A2/A3

Mexico MBT= ??? LTk= AMX-13/105 APC=M113 IFV=???



Central America:
Cuba MBT=T-72M(1970s) LTk=M5A1??? APC=??? IFV=BMP-1/2



South America
Argentina MBT= TAM(1970s) LTk= AMX-13/105 APC=M113 IFV=VCTP

Bolivia MBT=none LTk= AMX-13/105 APC=M113 IFV=none

Brasil MBT=M60A1(1970s) LTk=AMX-13/105 APC=M113 IFV=??? brasilian
made

Chile MBT=AMX-30(198?) LTk=AMX-13/105 APC=M113 IFV=???

Colombia MBT=??? LTk=??? APC=M113 IFV=???

Ecuador MBT=M4/105(1970s) LTk=M41 APC=M113 IFV=???

Paraguay MBT= M4/105(1980s) LTk=M3A1 APC=M113 IFV=none

Peru MBT=T-72M(1990s) LTk=AMX-13/105 APC=M113 IFV=??? (BMP-1?)

Venezuela MBT=AMX-30???(1980s) LTk=M41 APC= M113 IFV=???

Uruguay MBT=M4/105(1980s) LTk=M41 APC=M113 IFV=none



Not too much info about Central America nations, but they should follow american designs. Anyway in any case they havent enought armor to fill a regiment. (Uruguay and Paraguay nether)

Note: The M4/104 is an upgrated Sherman with a french or german 105mm gun. Still used by some countries as MBT, but maybe fit better as LTk.
 
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Thank you for your contribution. I'll nail this in the model names for the respective countries when I get time. We expect to release the alpha 1.02 soon, so I'll try to include the changes.

I really don't like the solution I've made so far. Splitting tank models into their respective years are not a good solution. E.g. some developing country modify an old soviet/american tank chassis in 2010 and name it something else, and they then get a tank which, after placing it in my model buildup, are much much more advanced than the Leopard or the M1A2 Abrams. Which is not very realistic.
Also, Soviet and American tanks are equally matched in the model tree I've constructed. Naturally, the American tanks are better than the Soviet. The only solution I've come up with until now is that the basic values of the models will be the same, however superior tank technology from the US will add substantially to the values and ultimately make the American tanks in American service superior to the Soviet ones. Same goes for most western nations.
This is not an ultimate solution, but it is the easiest (that's me in a nutshell ;))
If not, we would be locked down in discussion over which is the best of e.g. the Abrams and the Leopard, and such deep discussions are able to sink a mod like ours. And we don't want that, do we (democracy is fabolous! :rolleyes: )
Mad of power as I am, I've just decided to go with this for now, just to get this mod out and make progress. But I have a feeling that not everyone would agree.
Well, any thoughts on this? (sorry if I don't express myself clearly)
 
Some suggested corrections/additions:

Ecuador LTk=AMX-13 APC=AMX-VCI

Brasil IFV=EE-9 Cascavel (1970s)

Bolivia MBT=Scorpion LTk= Sk105 Kürassier (1970s-1980s) APC=M113 IFV=EE-9 Cascavel (1970s)

Colombia MBT=none (AMX-30 was possible in 2003/2004 but has been cancelled) LTk= M3A1 APC= EE-11 Urutu (1970s) IFV=EE-9 Cascavel (1970s)

Venezuela MBT=AMX-30V LTk=AMX-13C APC= LAV 100/150 IFV= Dragoon 300

Peru MBT=T-55 (There is no physical evidence of the T-72s, it's at best a future purchase, even many Peruvians admit that. ).

Uruguay MBT=T-55 (1998) LTk=M41 (1980) APC= OT-64 (1990s) IFV= BMP-1 (1990s)

Relevant links for more info (in Spanish mostly):

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~dpohara/afvs.html
http://www.saorbats.com.ar
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/Fuerzas Armadas Uruguayas.htm
http://miarroba.com/foros/ver.php?foroid=320658&temaid=1673949
http://syd-tecnicas.webcindario.com/ejercito.html
http://www.fav-club.com/blindados.html
 
Tanks years

The idea of set the tanks by years is ok. Just need set the tank in their technology year.
For example the argentinian TAM was developed during mid 70s, but is equivalent in combat to a M60 or a T-62/64. So despite apears in the 70s, should be in the 1960 tank tech line. The tech line should be delimited by USA/URRS technology.
In other example many countries upgrate their M48 in the 80s, but those tanks fit better in the 1960 tech line (as equivalents of the first M60s)
As far I see at this way you can use all tanks acording to their combat capabilities.
 
I thought of the problem that tanks made in 2000 by developing countries may be inferior to western tanks built in the 70s, but I found an easy solution to the problem.
The western nations will be superior when it comes to technology, and with all the tech, their tanks will be superior to a tank made by a small nation.
E.g. the German Leopard 2 has 33 in hard attack as standard. With the German tech, that number rises to 51.
 
Diego EV said:
The bolivian Scorpion fit better as light tank, I dont remember wich gun have, but with so thin armor and light weight is little more than a recce.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, that seems to be true, but they are using it in MBT role, at least according to the info I've read...so it just depends on what's the mod's/modder's preference, I'd say. Could go either way.
 
Anyone considered Naval models?

For instance:

CARRIERS

Early Cold War Carrier -
BRA - Clemenceau-Class (CV) [Sao Paulo]
BRA - Colossus-Class (CV) [Minas Gerais]

Mid Cold War Carrier -
IND(India) - Hermes-Class (CV) [Viraat; Ex-HMS Hermes]

Mid Cold War Super Carrier -
US - Kitty Hawk-Class (CV) or
US - Enterprise (CV)


Late Cold War Carrier -
UK - Invincible-Class (CVS/CV)
ITA - Garibaldi-Class (CVS)
RUS - Orel-Class (CV/CVS) [Admiral Kuznetsov]
IND - Modified Kiev-Class (CV) [ex Admiral Gorshkov, comes into service AUG 2008]
SIA(Thailand) - Chakri Naruebet-Class (CVS) [Questionable as to if its a 'conventional' carrier]

Late Cold War Nuclear Carrier -
US - Nimitz-Class (CVN)
FRA - Charles De Gaulle-Class (CVN) [Charles De Gaulle]


Post Cold War Carrier -
ITA - Cavour-Class (CVS) [Questionable as to if its Post Cold War, or logically a 'conventional' carrier]

Post Cold War Super Carrier -
UK(possibly FRA too) - Queen Elizabeth II-Class (CVF/CV) [QE2(2012)/Prince of Wales(2015)]

Post Cold War Nuclear Carrier -
US - ???-Class (CVNX/CVN21) [Plans for 10 to be built]

Futuristic Carrier -
???

Futuristic Nuclear Carrier -
???

  • The CVS (Carrier AWS, Anti-Submarine Warfare) cannot really be termed a carrier in the sense of the US CVNs. The UK carriers only carry 16 Harriers at the most, and some of the others 6 or 8 fighters. So either it could look like above, or perhaps be seperated into two new groups: Late Cold War CVS and Post Cold War CVS.
  • As I understand it, Helicopter Assault Ships have been planned as transports in the mod, though that could spawn different models in the transport class too.
  • This doesn't include refits etc

CRUISERS

Early Cold War Cruiser -
PER - De Ruyter-Class (CG)
RUS - Kynda-Class (CG)

Mid Cold War Multi-Role Cruiser -
ITA - Vittorio Veneto-Class (CGH)

Mid Cold War Guided Missile Cruiser -
RUS - Kara-Class (CG) or
RUS/UKR - Slava-Class (CG)

Late Cold War Nuclear Cruiser -
RUS - Kirov-Class (CGN)

Late Cold War AEGIS Cruiser -
US - Ticonderoga-Class (CG)

Post Cold War AEGIS Cruiser -
???

Futuristic AEGIS Cruiser -
???

Feel free to move stuff about if you see fit :)
 
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Cool, I could give you a list on Destroyer and Frigate classes but i'm not sure how your planning to get round the problem the US has 50 odd Destroyers and 30 odd Frigates whilst other countries are hard pressed to get half that.

Anyways, its late here so i'd best be off :cool:
 
Cg

Miid cold war nuke cruicer
California CGN (still in servise as far I remember)

Mayby the Slava could be late cold war missile cruiser, with the older Ticonderogas. The Kresta also could be early/mid cold war missile cruiser

Post cold war aegis... A.Burke II? Its a destroyer but almost a cruicer, and maybe more usefull than a Tico.
 
Hey, I'm working with the MDS over in the Vicky department, do you think we might be able to use your sprites you make? We're aiming for a cold-war mod so if you can help now but might want to join later, please PM; we can use all the help we can get.
Thanks.
 
Mr. Capiatlist said:
Hey, I'm working with the MDS over in the Vicky department, do you think we might be able to use your sprites you make? We're aiming for a cold-war mod so if you can help now but might want to join later, please PM; we can use all the help we can get.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, so do we. So don't drain our resources by advertising your mod :)
We haven't made any sprites as of now, but we COULD discuss the possibility later.
 
Diego EV said:
Miid cold war nuke cruicer
California CGN (still in servise as far I remember)
Click to expand...

The only Nuclear Cruiser still in service with a navy is the Russian Kirov Class (from what i can tell in my research). Though of course the names of older models can be used, I haven't put those in as I didn't know if I could drag the time up to find them. So technically its only ships that still in commission now i've put in. Might have a look at some older models now, would be quite interesting if the UK started deploying old Hermes Class Aircraft Carriers! :rofl:


Diego EV said:
Post cold war aegis... A.Burke II? Its a destroyer but almost a cruicer, and maybe more usefull than a Tico.
Click to expand...

I know the Arleigh Burke II is a pretty tough ship, guess thats just a question for debate. It is technically rated as a destroyer though. Plus game wise, if its made as a Cruiser, your gonna have around 50 odd Cruisers units as well as the Ticonderoga-Class already there.
 
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