Some help for economy please

[Gwalcmai]

Note that if you have a big army you can also use it for corruption fighting by spreading them over province's with corruption.Army's will make corruption building's go away much faster ,so you can set youre crime fighting to like 30% and youll army's will be able to minimilize the corruption still.



Nope ,in fact youre blasting a lot of income down the drain.Yes you get the tarrif boosts but youll also get those if you sell the good 1 by 1 ,afcourse at that rate the income won't change much on the very short term ,but youll sell the goods at it's most expensive price.

see every export you do will give you extra in tarrifs ,no matter if you sell it by batch or 1 by 1 ,but if you sell 200 goods in batch 199 of those will be sold at a price rangeing -20% to -50% of the normal price ,and thus the tarrifs youll earn on it will be also -20 to -50% less!

It goes the ther way around to.If a good is exported at a fair quantity (over 2) ,buying them by batch is cheaper than 1 by 1 ,afcourse i think most people buy in batch and then keep a constant supply.

Rather than always setting youre inport to like <10 cotton import (for a cloth factory for instance) you better buy <1000 every so much weeks.

AFAIK, if POPs buy their goods from you you don't get the tariff. So the point of selling in bulk is to keep your pops paying tariffs while you stockpile and then dropping all those goods they wouldn't pay tariffs on into the WM all at the same time. But, as cavalry said, I believe you sell all those products at the new low price. It's probably better to study the situation a bit to see which one pays the most.

 

[Lotus Lo]

AFAIK, if POPs buy their goods from you you don't get the tariff. So the point of selling in bulk is to keep your pops paying tariffs while you stockpile and then dropping all those goods they wouldn't pay tariffs on into the WM all at the same time. But, as cavalry said, I believe you sell all those products at the new low price. It's probably better to study the situation a bit to see which one pays the most.

it does sell at the lower price. the money you get from this is not from the sale.

pops get a big bonus from that sale, and then they turn around and purchase those exact same tarrifed goods, only this time they got money!

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

AFAIK, if POPs buy their goods from you you don't get the tariff. So the point of selling in bulk is to keep your pops paying tariffs while you stockpile and then dropping all those goods they wouldn't pay tariffs on into the WM all at the same time. But, as cavalry said, I believe you sell all those products at the new low price. It's probably better to study the situation a bit to see which one pays the most.

AND EVEN THEN! If you do that stockpile sell of pop demanded goods you will still get the hurt in tarrifs!Effectivly ,youre tarrifs will stay low for a amount of time depending on the amount of units you sold in the stock.I know it ssounds weird but let me give the ex:

Where you sell 10 liquor and youre tarrifs are hurt for 10 days (ex) ,if you sell 100 youre tarrifs wil be hurt for 100 days.Somehow the game remembers how many units you sold and even when they are gone on the world market from day one the pops will still buy the amount of liquer tarrif free that you sold on the World market.

i know that from experrience ,seen it happen enough.

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

So the moral of the lesson is to produce consumer goods but don't sell them on the market, keep them for your pops. What if you don't produce one of the goods? I assume you can buy them off the world market. Does this hurt your tariffs?(hint: I suck at economic stuff )
But also you want to sell stuff like luxury goods and steel?

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

What if you don't produce one of the goods? I assume you can buy them off the world market. Does this hurt your tariffs?

Importing won't hurt youre tarrifs. Afcourse youre cash will be hurt ,but you know that i guess.

But also you want to sell stuff like luxury goods and steel?

Yes you want to sell luxury's ,in fact the more the better. Your pops can't afford the luxury's anyway ,so they won't buy youre own produced luxury's.They are usually able to afford only the life and everyday needs stuff.

Dunno if you wanna sell steel.In Vip steel can be hard to be able to import and steel is needed for lots of stuff ,so i guess you want to either keep em for RR's or further production (like artillery factory ,wich has a nice profit ,or machine parts factory)

 

[unmerged(14477)]

No, no, no, no! I played around with my France campaign a bit last night and here are some numbers I have written down:

- Selling my paper, reg. cloths, wine and glass (all >30) in the WM, I am getting 940 to 1001 per day (full tarifs: 81 p/day).

- Stockpiling them and batch-selling them (at around 300+ or so units a time) I am getting 1164 to 1302 a day (full tarifs: 402 p/day). Note that this is the income at the stockpiling period, not the days after the sale (in those, depending on what I sell and how many units, my income goes up from 200 to 300 p/day).

And that doesn't even count the money I get from the sale (through income tax, I assume?)

I have played six months with the one method and (from the same savegame) six months with the other. With the batch selling method, and without any grand spending through that time, I have made ~48.000. With the constant selling system, I've made ~12.000. There isn't even a comparison there.

It is by extremely far more profitable to sell them in batch, if you have a gov that allows maxed out tarifs. If not, selling them as they come is better, I guess.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

This just goes to show that the "tariffs as free money"-thingy is one of the remaqining large bugs in Vicky....

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(14477)]

This just goes to show that the "tariffs as free money"-thingy is one of the remaqining large bugs in Vicky....

Rafiki

Ain't free, you take it from your citizen and they become angry therefore and overthrow your government... then install you again as their ruler, so you can complete your economic program and earn more money for your citizen, and to do that you max out tarifs... and the thing starts over again

Well, actually tarif money makes the game much easier. But if France needs the tarifs to make it big, I imagine lesser countries having a tough go without tarifs, no?

 

[OriginalRafiki]

It's free. You don't take any money from anyone, it appears out of thin air; they might get an increase in CON, but as has been debated elsewhere, it's not that dabgerous, if at all.

Rafiki

 

[Cavalry]

It is by extremely far more profitable to sell them in batch, if you have a gov that allows maxed out tarifs. If not, selling them as they come is better, I guess.

just don't produce them. You better produce other thing! If you sell on batch then you may get loss from production!

 

[unmerged(32585)]

The economics in Victoria is a fair attempt, but still leaves a lot to be desired. Tariffs is the most obvious flaw - a typical case of eating the cake while still keeping it. If the stuff actually did go away the consumption levels would have to be changed. If each pop were to consume 0.5 glass, as it appears is their wish, each worker would eat more glass than he is able to produce.


What I miss the most is:
* An incomelevel indicator (why not simply an income in $?) and with that a taxlevel-indicator other than a percentage of an unknown income. I know that the stuff they demand is an indication of income of sorts, but then I really don't understand why clerks make pittances and get to fulfill 30% of their needs while farmers in freshly claimed desert colonies have 200%.
* Events should increase or decrease that income. Having events that increase "tax efficiency" for certain groups is bizarre.
* I'd also love to see the world market idea expanded with for instance embargoes on certain countries (deciding who you won't sell to), more possibility for speculation etc.

The existing model can be used for interesting gameplay, but it requires you to discover and memorize the strange rules that apply.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

No, no, no, no! I played around with my France campaign a bit last night and here are some numbers I have written down: - Selling my paper, reg. cloths, wine and glass (all >30) in the WM, I am getting 940 to 1001 per day (full tarifs: 81 p/day). - Stockpiling them and batch-selling them (at around 300+ or so units a time) I am getting 1164 to 1302 a day (full tarifs: 402 p/day). Note that this is the income at the stockpiling period, not the days after the sale (in those, depending on what I sell and how many units, my income goes up from 200 to 300 p/day).

First of all youre talking here about products like regular clothes and wine witch both can be potentially the most expensive import youre pops have At that moment.In that case selling these specific goods would kill youre tarrifs and if you would sell them regulary 1 at the time then youre tarrifs would be hurt for a long time.But that is usually only 1 of these types of goods ,If you would sell things like luxury clothes or luxury furniture by batches of 300 then youll loose pile's of cash as selling them 1 by 1 won't hurt youre tarrifs at all but will keep the price high.

And then it's all dependant what youre pops buy ,i said before you got to check what they can buy.Note that this will change over time ,the more technological advanced and economicly prosperous you come and the more literate youre pops are the more they will earn and be able to afford ,however at high tech levels usually it's better to actually sell those products like reg clothes etc to as they are then very effeciant and youre tarrifs become of lower importance.And the lower youre technological level is or the more backward ,the more youre tarrifs will be of importance.
Pops of an uncivilized country for ex. will put most of their money in regular clothes ,so it's the only product not to sell.

What im saying is that rather than selling certain goods as batch always ,you should just check youre pops and see what the most expensive products are that they are able to buy ,and only stockpile those goods or use them for other things.In youre ex. youre pops may have only bought regular clothes ,while youre pops were unable to buy glass or paper anyway ,in that case with just stockpiling regular clothes you would have had youre tarrifs at 1100-1300 to ,but you woulda get more out of selling the glass etc at 1 by 1.

an ex:

In this picture our farmer pop's highest value import is liquer ,it cant buy regular clothes or glass yet.In a country where about 95% is farmer selling liquor wile hurt youre tarrifs a lot since the pops pay a price of about 16£ for it and thats about 60% of their imports.Selling regular clothes at this point 1 by 1 though won't hurt my tarrifs much ,my pops can't buy the local produced goods anyway.

That said ,if you have a nation full of craftsmen and clerks ,well sure these guys will buy more product's than just liquor ,and depending on the size of that poppulation strata and the thing's they buy you might want to avoid certain product sales.And since tech will affect effeciancy of factory's and rgo's and strata income by time youre pops will have more money to buy more products.

 

[unmerged(14477)]

Good, that makes sense. My France is not having a single farmer in its state provinces (in colonies we do have many) besides those taking care my silk production, and a few others here and there waiting to be promoted when I get the rest of the useful technologies for factories (I am in the 1860s still). I have laborers (in mines - sulfur, iron and mostly coal) though, but they are not quite as numerous - my largest POPs I converted to clerks anyways.

So, reg. clothes, paper and glass are - since we are a prosperous country, overall - in their imediate reach, so selling them steadily would cost my tarifs dearly. My numbers are correct and I've run the test for a decent period (6 months on each configuration) and the difference is overwhelmingly huge (4X the cash with the batch selling method).

I ain't selling my lux goods in batches, for instance my lux. clothes and furniture are being sold as they come in.

 

[unmerged(2457)]

Youre tarrif income is depending on how much youre pops buy of the world market. (Usually youre pops arn't able to buy much life or everyday needs so what they are able to buy at most is usualy liquor or clothes or some other basic goods)
But when youre producing one of these used goods yourself and sell them ,then youre pops will buy the local produced good first and since it isn't imported from the local market you won't get tarrifs anymore on that import.
So selling a product that youre pops are able to buy will hurt youre tarrifs income.

Because youre pos are short in cash ,they will only buy 5 or 6 basic goods. While they can afford rural goods easily usually because they are cheap ,they won't be able to afford the import of 1 or 2 produced basic products like furniture ,clothes or liquor.And since these latter products are relativly expensive ,the about 70 to 90% of youre tarrifs are from the imports of those produced products ,and producing these products will hit youre tarrifs by that much.

You can see what youre pops are importing by checking them. Check what the most expensive goods are that they import and avoid selling that.
That doesn't mean that you never should produce the goods that youre pops are buying ,just don't sell those goods on the world market.but in a production chain of for ex. lumber->furniture->lux furniture it's acceptable to produce the furniture even if youre pops import it as long as you only use it for producing the lux furniture or to stock them upgrade pops.

Thanks for the explanation. I found this post to be extremely enlightening wrt to tariff explanation.

 

[Darkrenown]

So the moral of the lesson is to produce consumer goods but don't sell them on the market, keep them for your pops.

Your pops buy from the WM, if you don't sell, they can't buy.

 

[Cavalry]

you can care about your people later when you are in democracy. As in monarchy, you should learn how a King earn his money: tariff!

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Your pops buy from the WM, if you don't sell, they can't buy.

unless you produce the product in a finshed product ,like seling no regular clothes but use them to make lux. clothes ,then technicly the regular clothes will be still sold nd the craftsmen producing them will get money they can use to buy stuff ,only the reg clothes are not sold directly on the WM.

 

[Darkrenown]

Nope, the reg clothes are used up, not sold, and your pop;s income are not dependant on the goods they themselves make being sold. All you export income is added up and divided between all your pops.

 

[unmerged(18031)]

Wait. Tariffs are free money? Whose citizenry pays the tariff cost? I had thought that high tariffs would bankrupt my citizenry and that a bankrupt citizenry would lead to grossly retarded economic development.

 

[unmerged(2457)]

I think what they mean is that if you are selling a product that your POPs can afford to buy and if that product you are selling is already manufactured in your country they will buy your own manufactured goods.

You will receive a profit from the goods you sold but that profit gets canceled from your tariffs. I think this is how it works.