Hi Devs!
I know that Hellenic religion isn't going to be high on your priority list of things to change, but I do have a couple of things that could be fun and flavorful to implement that might help make the religion look a little more accurate in terms of holy sites and holy orders.
And while this kind of stuff is achievable via a mod, the suggestions seem like something that everyone could gain some benefit from, so why not pitch them here?
1. Holy Sites
(Barony and Duchy listed alongside the name)
2. Holy Orders
3. A fun event/story idea
Anyway like I said earlier I know that the Hellenic religion isn't a priority but if at any time soneone wants to take alook under the hood and add a few fun things for those of us who do like to play using it I think these are some good, flavorful and hopefully easy suggestions for how to make it just a little better.
I know that Hellenic religion isn't going to be high on your priority list of things to change, but I do have a couple of things that could be fun and flavorful to implement that might help make the religion look a little more accurate in terms of holy sites and holy orders.
And while this kind of stuff is achievable via a mod, the suggestions seem like something that everyone could gain some benefit from, so why not pitch them here?
1. Holy Sites
(Barony and Duchy listed alongside the name)
To me the Holy sites don't make a lot of sense, and seem mostly catered to just spreading out the holy sites of Hellenism, and maybe helping to reflect its spread around the Med sea. I would reorganize them some to reflect a bit better the spiritual beliefs and actual places of Hellenic 'pilgrimage'. Alexandria and Carthage were bothmajor cities to be sure, but neither of them could be said to be particularly important to Hellenic religion.
1) Troy/Illion (Illion, Abydos) : This was a place of actual pilgrimage for ancient worshipers of the Olympian pantheon - Alexander the great and various Roman emperors among them. it's a place whose story, the Iliad directly gave shape to several different classical worldviews and many peoples across Greece and Italy had myths to relate them to the heroes of the Trojan war in one way or another. The supposed bones of heroes would be dug up from around troy and carted off to be venerated in Hero shrines (like the Bones of Hector were taken to Thebes) not unlike later Christian practice. There is no other place that should be a holy site for Hellenism like Troy, it's the closest things they have to Jerusalem.
*The ruins of Troy could also be one of the those special buildings that only give bonuses when the holder is a Hellenic pagan.)
2) Olympia (Andravida, Achaia): The site of the Olympic games in honor of Zeus, originally only for Greeks but in time open to Italians (or at least those who had Roman citizenship). It's easy to see how this site would retain importance for any one looking to reform the hellenic religion.
3) Roma (Roma!) The eventual center of the western world had a habit of collecting Gods and temples from across it's vast empire and to a degree trying to centralize them. For the ancient Italians Rome would have been a holy city if for nothing else having the largest temple to Jupiter (and perhaps the largest temple in Italy?) located in it along with all the other temples and cults in the city.
4) Pillars of Hercules & The Oracle of Menesthus (Cadiz, Cadiz) The pillars of Hercules are great symbolically anyway just as symbols of the might of the son of Zeus, a character that in modern times we can see as 'civilizing hero' and areas that would adopt/be absorbed into what we think of as the Hellnic Pantheon would often link themselves in some ways to the exploits of Hercules. (This is true in Italy as much as it is in the Aegean and elsewhere).
However, it also serves as pretty good marker of entrance into the undying west, where beyond could be found the garden of Hesperides, the Isles of the blessed, an entrance to the underworld in general etc, as well as Spain having some heroic myth associations with the Labors of Hercules and the travels of Odysseus.
There also happens to have been an oracles in the area of which I don't really know much about, but it does bump up the areas important a little.
1) Troy/Illion (Illion, Abydos) : This was a place of actual pilgrimage for ancient worshipers of the Olympian pantheon - Alexander the great and various Roman emperors among them. it's a place whose story, the Iliad directly gave shape to several different classical worldviews and many peoples across Greece and Italy had myths to relate them to the heroes of the Trojan war in one way or another. The supposed bones of heroes would be dug up from around troy and carted off to be venerated in Hero shrines (like the Bones of Hector were taken to Thebes) not unlike later Christian practice. There is no other place that should be a holy site for Hellenism like Troy, it's the closest things they have to Jerusalem.
*The ruins of Troy could also be one of the those special buildings that only give bonuses when the holder is a Hellenic pagan.)
2) Olympia (Andravida, Achaia): The site of the Olympic games in honor of Zeus, originally only for Greeks but in time open to Italians (or at least those who had Roman citizenship). It's easy to see how this site would retain importance for any one looking to reform the hellenic religion.
3) Roma (Roma!) The eventual center of the western world had a habit of collecting Gods and temples from across it's vast empire and to a degree trying to centralize them. For the ancient Italians Rome would have been a holy city if for nothing else having the largest temple to Jupiter (and perhaps the largest temple in Italy?) located in it along with all the other temples and cults in the city.
4) Pillars of Hercules & The Oracle of Menesthus (Cadiz, Cadiz) The pillars of Hercules are great symbolically anyway just as symbols of the might of the son of Zeus, a character that in modern times we can see as 'civilizing hero' and areas that would adopt/be absorbed into what we think of as the Hellnic Pantheon would often link themselves in some ways to the exploits of Hercules. (This is true in Italy as much as it is in the Aegean and elsewhere).
However, it also serves as pretty good marker of entrance into the undying west, where beyond could be found the garden of Hesperides, the Isles of the blessed, an entrance to the underworld in general etc, as well as Spain having some heroic myth associations with the Labors of Hercules and the travels of Odysseus.
There also happens to have been an oracles in the area of which I don't really know much about, but it does bump up the areas important a little.
Contenders for a 5th Holy SiteThe Hellenic religion at present only has 4 holy sites I think, but it's not too much of a stretch to bring it up to 5 or even more. However, the remaining sites are a lot less straight forward as to which ones would be best. The choice depends on how much you want to space out the remaining holy sites, or how accurate to places people might have gone to for pilgramage or seen the symbolic value of. The main places of pilgrimage in the ancient world would have been oracles, but of course by the time of CK3 all of those are extinct. There are also places related to deities such as associated birthplaces, and places associated with Hero myths but I don't know if these places ever attracted much in the way of pilgrims.
-Dodonna (Ioannina, Epeiros) - the ancient Oracle of Zeus, reliant on the auguries of the wind and one of the premier oracles of the ancient world. Of all the Oracles it would seem to me it's the most likelly to be able to be 'restored' as it didn't rely on exotic gasses or anything like Delphi had.
-Delphi (Lidoriki, Aetolia) The most famous of the ancient Oracles, considered the navel of the world by some. It's symbolic value for classical Hellenist would have been huge, and maybe as a continued site of "revived hellenism' it could be again, though it's not my favorite just because it's very close to other holy sites and I doubt you could get an oracle working there again in a convincing manner.
-Ballbek (Az-Zabadani, or Baalbak, Baalbek) The Syrian city hosted some of the largest temples in the entire Roman world dedicated to Jupiter and Bacchus. It likely would have been a major center of Pilgrimage for ancient Pagans in the Levant if not beyond. It's a reasonable choice both because of the size of its temples and how during the Hellenistic and Roman period the Phoenician deities ended up fitting into the wider Greek/Roman interpretation of deities reasonably well.
Diktaean Cave cave, Birth place of Zeus (Irapetra, Chandax) The birth place of the King of the Gods! Or one of the potential places he was born. or raised. Or hidden until he could cast off Kronos. The myths vary, but they all agree this place in important. Im portant enough to be a holy site? Maybe!
Birthplace of Aphrodite (Paphos, Nicosia) Like the above for Zeus, but for Aphrodite. Not as close to the Greek mainland as Crete, so maybe a better choice game play wise?
Colchis (Kutaisi, Odishi) The location of Kutaisi was chosen because it has an associatiin with being the city of Aea, the city of King Aeëtes the guardian of the Golden Fleece. While Jason was arguably the worst of the ancient Greek heroes, Colchis serves as a kind of neat counter balance to the pillars of Hercules showing how the entire Mediterranean basin was incorporated into some of the earliest myths.
-Dodonna (Ioannina, Epeiros) - the ancient Oracle of Zeus, reliant on the auguries of the wind and one of the premier oracles of the ancient world. Of all the Oracles it would seem to me it's the most likelly to be able to be 'restored' as it didn't rely on exotic gasses or anything like Delphi had.
-Delphi (Lidoriki, Aetolia) The most famous of the ancient Oracles, considered the navel of the world by some. It's symbolic value for classical Hellenist would have been huge, and maybe as a continued site of "revived hellenism' it could be again, though it's not my favorite just because it's very close to other holy sites and I doubt you could get an oracle working there again in a convincing manner.
-Ballbek (Az-Zabadani, or Baalbak, Baalbek) The Syrian city hosted some of the largest temples in the entire Roman world dedicated to Jupiter and Bacchus. It likely would have been a major center of Pilgrimage for ancient Pagans in the Levant if not beyond. It's a reasonable choice both because of the size of its temples and how during the Hellenistic and Roman period the Phoenician deities ended up fitting into the wider Greek/Roman interpretation of deities reasonably well.
Diktaean Cave cave, Birth place of Zeus (Irapetra, Chandax) The birth place of the King of the Gods! Or one of the potential places he was born. or raised. Or hidden until he could cast off Kronos. The myths vary, but they all agree this place in important. Im portant enough to be a holy site? Maybe!
Birthplace of Aphrodite (Paphos, Nicosia) Like the above for Zeus, but for Aphrodite. Not as close to the Greek mainland as Crete, so maybe a better choice game play wise?
Colchis (Kutaisi, Odishi) The location of Kutaisi was chosen because it has an associatiin with being the city of Aea, the city of King Aeëtes the guardian of the Golden Fleece. While Jason was arguably the worst of the ancient Greek heroes, Colchis serves as a kind of neat counter balance to the pillars of Hercules showing how the entire Mediterranean basin was incorporated into some of the earliest myths.
2. Holy Orders
There exists tales of certain warrior-priest groups who might be good fodder to use as the basis for holy orders. I think these would do well to be additions to the current roster.
1) The Salii priests A distinctly Roman group, there were two brother hoods of Salian priests one for Mars and another for Quirinus (deified Romulus) and even though each would have only numbered 12 it's not hard to see how in an age like that Crusader Kings these 12 priests become the command structure for a holy order.
2) The Kouretes A male brotherhood from Crete who have legendary connections with being guardians of the infant Zeus, and is used in Homer as term meaning the best youthful warrior.
1) The Salii priests A distinctly Roman group, there were two brother hoods of Salian priests one for Mars and another for Quirinus (deified Romulus) and even though each would have only numbered 12 it's not hard to see how in an age like that Crusader Kings these 12 priests become the command structure for a holy order.
2) The Kouretes A male brotherhood from Crete who have legendary connections with being guardians of the infant Zeus, and is used in Homer as term meaning the best youthful warrior.
3. A fun event/story idea
It would be fun if a Hellenic pagan (maybe an old mystic? Or someone a bit mad? Maybe old and without a direct heir?) could get the idea to try to journey to the Garden of the Hesperides, or even to the isles of the blessed. This could end up resulting in getting a claim on the Canary islands or Madeira.
And if you guys ever end up revisiting Sunset Invasion and putting in the time to generate Native American faces it would be fun to even continue the story chain beyond that to where the character can actually attempt a voyage to find the 'real' islands of the blessed/garden of the hesperides and potentially all sorts of different results ranging from returning with a new Mesoamerican bride/groom with a baby on the way (maybe or maybe not including syphilis!) sacrificed on an atlar with only the crew retuning to tell the tale, lost at sea, all sorts of things.)
Anyway like I said earlier I know that the Hellenic religion isn't a priority but if at any time soneone wants to take alook under the hood and add a few fun things for those of us who do like to play using it I think these are some good, flavorful and hopefully easy suggestions for how to make it just a little better.
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