This is really a follow on from this post on the af Munsö dynasty. That ended up much more extensive than I'd intended, so to make things easier (and because Svend Estridsen had so many damn kids) I decided to split it into separate reports.
A while ago the user Voy posted a number of corrections to the Ylving dynasty here, which I will reference.
------
Firstly, there appears to be an awful lot of contention regarding the actual dynasty name, as discussed in posts such as this and this. It seems that most searches for 'Ylving' simply point back to this forum, and the name appears to be a strange mistranslation of Ulfinger or Ulfsen, which would be the normal patrilineal name of the dynasty.
Oddly, Wikipedia suggests that House af Munsö has been referred to as the Ylving dynasty, but of course that's not the same dynasty as Svend's -- his father was af Munsö whilst his mother was a Knýtling.
Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it as most people (including Danish users) seem to think Ylving is wrong. Personally I've always favored Estridsen or af Estrid (being as Svend was the founder and explicitly claimed descent thru the female line) but I assume Ylving was picked for a reason. I'm just not sure what it was.
------
Anyway, onto the actual database stuff.
It is said that Svend (ID 101515) was a courageous general, if not an especially skilled one. His military score (which I've not changed) should reflect this, but I think he should have the 'brave' trait as he never shied from battle and indeed fought against Harald Hårdråde in the early 1060s. In addition, 'Saxo Grammaticus says that King Svend was "famed for his generosity, remarkably benevolent", encouraged the building of churches and the spread of Christianity, but "soiled this spotless conduct only by the excesses of his lust.' He's already 'lustful' and 'zealous' so this is fine. Almost all of the sources which mention Svend stress his immense popularity with the people of Denmark; perhaps because he gave the kingdom an air of dynastic stability and put an end to the wars with Norway.
I've removed Gyda Anundsdottor (ID 100513) simply because I don't believe she existed, and few if any sources actually suggest that Anund Jakob had children. It's more likely that those two women (Gunhild & Gyda) have been confused in sources due to their similar names and apparent biographies. This is quite common in medieval sources, and both Orderic Vitalis and Saxo Grammaticus list them as being the same person, which is good enough for me. I've also changed the date of Svend's marriage and divorce to match this source and removed his later (politically likely but chronologically dubious) marriage to Tora Torbergsdatter (ID 102551) -- primarily because she dies in 1067 and so can not possibly remarry two years later. That is certainly a bug in itself, and as I can find no information to indicate that she survived her husband by more than a few years, I'm happy with this. In addition, if you read the section about her on Svend's genealogy page then the supposed birth of Svend's son by her doesn't make any sense. It's bizarre to think that they would have had children whilst she was still Harald Hårdråde's (ID 102531) mistress. Also, as the Saga makes no reference to a Magnus among Svend's many sons, I'm going to rule it out. I also agree with the author that it seems very odd that Tora would have named a possible third son after her dead first son.
Now, onto Svend's children. Oh boy.
I should start by saying that there's a hell of a lot of confusion about King Svend and his many bastards, but I've taken the time to consult numerous sources as well as ask for help here, which has given me access to translated extracts from the Knýtlingesaga courtesy of a couple of Scandinavian forum users. Many thanks to those who helped.
King Svend and his one universally accepted queen, Gunhild Sveinsdatter, had a son named Svend prior to their divorce (which had been forced on them by the Pope on threat of excommunication). He was therefore the King's only legitimate son; now... at this point, it is possible that there was a third (or rather first, as he would have been the eldest of the three) son named Svend, or that the son in question is in fact none other than Svend Korsfarer (ID 101553).
Now, I know this may seem controversial but let me explain. Firstly, I think it's unlikely that Svend had three sons named after him; two (one a bastard and one not) is more likely, and the dates do seem to add up. It's said that Svend and Gunnhild had a son, but he never became king despite being both legitimate and one of the king's eldest sons. My personal theory here is that it was due to the nature of his parents' marriage; as I've mentioned, Svend and Gunnhild's marriage was considered illegal by the Church on the grounds that it was seen to be incestuous, hence its swift annulment. Svend was a great ally of the Papacy and did much to entrench Christianity in Denmark, paying for many dozens of churches to be built across the kingdom, as well as sending his son Knud to be crowned in Rome (presumably as co-king and thus Svend's heir, as was very common at the time) and lobbying for the canonization of Harald Bluetooth. As it happens, one of Svend's own sons (the second Knud) was himself canonized shortly after his death.
Now, the point here is that if you examine the relative ages of Svend's sons (and I know they're not consistent among sources, but there is a general agreement as to who the elder sons were) it's easy to see that Svend Korsfarer was among the eldest, and yet several of his younger half-siblings became king in his place. Why is this? It was always said that Svend's 'pact' with the Danes was that his sons would inherit in succession (before any children they themselves had) whilst at least one survived, at which point other candidates could be elected by the Ting. With Svend being the product of an incestuous and annulled marriage, however, it is quite likely that he would have been made exempt from the kingship, which was pretty rare given that even bastards born to concubines were able to inherit.
This would certainly explain why both Erik Ejegod (ID 101521) and Svend Tronkræver (ID 101526, the other Svend) thought themselves eligible in preference to Svend Korsfarer. You can even look at the generally accepted birth dates on Wikipedia to check this from a fairly well-known public source.
Admittedly without my explanation, both of these (1 & 2) sources seem to suggest that he may have indeed been the son of Svend and Gunnhild, and so the idea that Svend Korsfarer was treated as a true bastard during his lifetime (a rarity in Denmark, but then again so were marriages annulled by the Pope) would definitely explain why he never became king and later decided to 'take up the cross.'
As always, feel free to disagree with my analysis, but I think it makes sense; from King Svend's point of view (remember he was a big public supporter of the Church) his son's exclusion wouldn't really have been a problem as he had loads of other half-brothers to succeed him, so he may have seen it as a sacrifice worth making so as to garner favor with the Papacy. Nor is there any evidence that the elder Svend tried to usurp the throne from any of his younger brothers, as if it was simply understood that he had no claim. Finally, the Saga specifically only mentions two sons named Svend, which would logically be Korsfarer and Tronkræver.
Next, King Svend's oldest son, Knud Magnus.
I'd just go with Knud, as that's the name given in the Saga as Svend's eldest bastard. He is dead by 1066, and is the child sent to be crowned by the Pope in Rome. This was in his father's lifetime of course, so he'd just have been crowned as a co-ruler and to confirm his succession. This sort of thing was very popular in England and France at the time. The name Magnus almost certainly stems from confusion with another possible (but in my eyes, highly unlikely) child of Svend's with Tora Torbergsdatter. I've explained above why this is almost certainly not an historically valid relationship, and therefore why Magnus probably never existed. Incidentally, he isn't mentioned in the Saga either. I've also made him slightly older than Harald Hen (ID 101517) -- the next oldest brother -- as they currently have the same birth year, whereas Knud should be older as he was clearly heir-presumptive until his death.
Speaking of Harald, I'd just alter his traits slightly.
Judging from descriptions of Harald, I think those are slightly more fitting traits; Saxo Grammaticus says that Harald was possessed by 'an everlasting slothful inertia' since boyhood whilst Wikipedia words Saxo's description as 'a weak and ineffective king yielding to the will of the common people,' whilst adding that 'he is also described as a man who let others control his actions, possessing a mild temper.'
The next brother, Knud den Hellige (ID 101519) seems fine to me, though I will add that his daughters were in fact twins, and not born several years apart as they are currently.
Ingegerd's husband Folke the Fat (ID 200535) is in the game, but Cecilia seems to be unmarried. This source (scroll down) says she married a guy by the name of Erik Jarl, and they had two sons. No idea who he is, though, and whether or not he's important, or even in the game.
Next up is Oluf Hunger (ID 101520), sho seems to have been cursed (or not far off).
His biography and cause of death are both pretty fascinating, and he seems to have been a character right out of Shakespeare. Amusingly, by giving him the 'depressed' trait the player (as Oluf) would actually be able to kill himself, which is sort of suggested he did. :laugh:
The next brother, Erik Ejegod (already linked to above) seems fine to me. He was a much better king and already has a good set of traits. I'm not sure about this bit, though:
I can't seem to find any information about this woman, and she's also listed as the mother of Ingrid (ID 101516):
There's no mention of any of King Svend's concubines being named specifically, and Wikipedia says that Erik and Ingrid's mothers are unknown. Now obviously I could be wrong here, and if this is something that's been proven and I just don't know about it then fine, but if indeed this is a mistake (source?) I think she should be removed. As far as I can see, the only one of Svend's children who should have a mother specified is Svend Korsfarer.
The last of King Svend's sons to become king was Niels (ID 101530) who seems fine as far as I can tell. Information about him seems quite vague ('mild and forthcoming, though not a competent ruler') and his dates seem accurate, so I'll leave him be.
So now it's 'just' a case of tidying up the other kids...
Sigrid should definitely be born earlier, as she's supposed to have a son, Henrik (ID 8402) in 1062. This source suggests 1042/3 as a year of birth, which seems sensible, so I've opted for 1042 so she doesn't have the same birth year as some of her other siblings. As for her death date, see Voy's suggestion here.
The previously mentioned Svend Tronkræver was (it is generally thought) the eldest surviving brother after the death of Erik Ejegod; this is presumably why he tried to arrange his own coronation before Niels could beat him to it, but he apparently fell ill and continued anyway, dying not long after. Thus, Niels (the last surviving son of King Svend still in Denmark) became king. It's worth pointing out that the Saga lists Svend as being older than Erik, which is possible, but this may be inaccurate as previously the succession appears to have gone from brother to brother in order of seniority. However, Svend's apparent rush to get himself crowned before Niels may suggest that he was passed over in the succession before and feared the same may have happened again. I'll go with the majority verdict, though, which is that Svend was younger than Erik and so no date changes are needed.
Regarding his traits, though, I do not think he should be 'patient' as he appears to have been quite the opposite, and indeed his lack of patience is exactly what killed him. Usurpers are by definition ambitious, and I think this collection of traits will better represent him as a threat to his other brothers. The idea is that there was a lot of infighting among King Svend's children, and so some of them being ambitious is ideal.
The next brother is Thorgils (ID 101529), who should have a slight name change (the link is Torgils_Torkel):
Little is known of Torgils except that he is listed as the eighth brother in the Saga and probably emigrated to Russia. To quote a user in the OT forum (who translated the Saga into Danish), Torgils 'traveled east to Garderige (Russia), where he had a respectable Lineage from his mother. There he was raised and taken as King and never returned to Denmark.' This site confirms his destination, though no death date is given. His birth year seems about right, as it would make him younger than Erik and Svend, though I'll make him a year older so he's not born the same time as Sigurd. It'd be interesting to see who his Russian family were, but unfortunately I have absolutely no idea.
The next brother is Sigurd, who I'll come to later as he is currently missing.
Then, Benedikt (ID 101523), who is currently too old and has (IMO) the wrong education trait:
Benedikt was Knud den Hellige's favorite brother and the head of the royal bodyguard. Thus, we can assume he was loyal and served his brother well until they were murdered together in 1086. He is listed both in the Saga and on the usual Internet sources as being born inbetween Sigurd...
...and Bjørn (ID 101525):
Currently Bjørn has no education trait, so we can fix that. His dates are fine; he was apparently murdered in Rendsburg in 1100.
The next two brothers, Gorm (or Guttorm) and Ømund (or Eymund) are also missing, and so they go between Bjørn and Niels.
Finally (at last!) we can add the four missing brothers. There's actually no reason not to add these as they're all alive in 1066 and so can have a lot of gameplay impact. I've included the brothers listed in the Saga (and there are references to them among the other sources used herein), so not Karl listed here.
NEW:
Sigurd died fighting the Wends in Pomerania, though we don't know when. He was a younger son who died whilst he still had living older brothers who were kings, which would explain why there's so little information about him. He probably didn't marry.
I've made these two twins because we don't know much about them other than they both probably died before Niels became king.
Finally, the youngest son Ulf (or Ubbe) who apparently died in 1104.
There's some confusion about Ulf; he may have been older as it is suggested that his ascension was discussed (but he refused) after the death of Erik Ejegod, meaning he would likely have been the next oldest brother by order of seniority. That is speculative, though, and the Saga lists him as Svend's youngest son whilst Danish Wikipedia puts him before Niels, and so the second youngest brother.
And very quickly just to tidy the other daughters up (so their births are spread out a bit more):
To recap, the list in order of birth should be:
- Knud (ID 101528) -- 1039
- Harald Hen (ID 101517) -- 1041
- Sigrid (ID 101527) -- 1042
- Knud den Hellige (ID 101519) -- 1043
- Ragnhild (ID 101522) -- 1044
- Gunhild (ID 101524) -- 1046
- Oluf Hunger (ID 101520) -- 1050
- Ingrid (ID 101516) -- 1052
- Svend Korsfarer (ID 101553) -- 1053 *
- Erik Ejegod (ID 101521) -- 1055
- Svend Tronkræver (ID 101526) -- 1056
- Torgils (ID 101529) -- 1059
- Sigurd (new ID) -- 1060
- Benedikt (ID 101523) -- 1061
- Bjørn (ID 101525) -- 1062
- Gorm (new ID) -- 1063 (twin)
- Ømund (new ID) -- 1063 (twin)
- Niels (ID 101530) -- 1064
- Ulf (new ID) -- 1065
I think that's everything. Please let me know if I've made any typos or you disagree with anything. Given the material available, though, I think I've done a thorough job.
All children should be legitimized bastards apart from Svend Korsfarer* who should be a normal bastard but with his mother specified. This is a kind of special case, though there were likely other examples of this I'm unaware of.
This was a hell of a lot of work so I hope someone at least bothers to read thru it all. It's certainly not that hard to actually implement this stuff, it just takes a long time to do the research and type it up.o
Thanks.
A while ago the user Voy posted a number of corrections to the Ylving dynasty here, which I will reference.
------
Firstly, there appears to be an awful lot of contention regarding the actual dynasty name, as discussed in posts such as this and this. It seems that most searches for 'Ylving' simply point back to this forum, and the name appears to be a strange mistranslation of Ulfinger or Ulfsen, which would be the normal patrilineal name of the dynasty.
Oddly, Wikipedia suggests that House af Munsö has been referred to as the Ylving dynasty, but of course that's not the same dynasty as Svend's -- his father was af Munsö whilst his mother was a Knýtling.
Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it as most people (including Danish users) seem to think Ylving is wrong. Personally I've always favored Estridsen or af Estrid (being as Svend was the founder and explicitly claimed descent thru the female line) but I assume Ylving was picked for a reason. I'm just not sure what it was.
------
Anyway, onto the actual database stuff.
Code:
101515 = {
name="Svend" # Estridsson
dynasty=487
martial=2
diplomacy=6
intrigue=6
stewardship=7
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="lustful"
add_trait="wroth"
add_trait="zealous"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="brave"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="gregarious"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="charitable"[/COLOR]
add_trait="midas_touched"
father=101535 # Ulf Torgilsson
mother=101509 # Estrid
1019.1.1={
birth="1019.1.1"
add_claim = k_england
}
[COLOR="#FF0000"]1046.1.1={
add_spouse=100513 # Gyda Anundsdottor
}[/COLOR]
10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]52[/COLOR].1.1={
add_spouse=102516 # Gunhild Sveinsdatter
}
105[COLOR="#FF8C00"]4[/COLOR].1.1={
remove_spouse=102516 # Gunhild Sveinsdatter
}
[COLOR="#FF0000"]1069.1.1={
add_spouse=102551 # Thora Torbergsdatter (Arnung)
}[/COLOR]
1076.4.28={
death="1076.4.28"
}
}It is said that Svend (ID 101515) was a courageous general, if not an especially skilled one. His military score (which I've not changed) should reflect this, but I think he should have the 'brave' trait as he never shied from battle and indeed fought against Harald Hårdråde in the early 1060s. In addition, 'Saxo Grammaticus says that King Svend was "famed for his generosity, remarkably benevolent", encouraged the building of churches and the spread of Christianity, but "soiled this spotless conduct only by the excesses of his lust.' He's already 'lustful' and 'zealous' so this is fine. Almost all of the sources which mention Svend stress his immense popularity with the people of Denmark; perhaps because he gave the kingdom an air of dynastic stability and put an end to the wars with Norway.
I've removed Gyda Anundsdottor (ID 100513) simply because I don't believe she existed, and few if any sources actually suggest that Anund Jakob had children. It's more likely that those two women (Gunhild & Gyda) have been confused in sources due to their similar names and apparent biographies. This is quite common in medieval sources, and both Orderic Vitalis and Saxo Grammaticus list them as being the same person, which is good enough for me. I've also changed the date of Svend's marriage and divorce to match this source and removed his later (politically likely but chronologically dubious) marriage to Tora Torbergsdatter (ID 102551) -- primarily because she dies in 1067 and so can not possibly remarry two years later. That is certainly a bug in itself, and as I can find no information to indicate that she survived her husband by more than a few years, I'm happy with this. In addition, if you read the section about her on Svend's genealogy page then the supposed birth of Svend's son by her doesn't make any sense. It's bizarre to think that they would have had children whilst she was still Harald Hårdråde's (ID 102531) mistress. Also, as the Saga makes no reference to a Magnus among Svend's many sons, I'm going to rule it out. I also agree with the author that it seems very odd that Tora would have named a possible third son after her dead first son.
Now, onto Svend's children. Oh boy.
I should start by saying that there's a hell of a lot of confusion about King Svend and his many bastards, but I've taken the time to consult numerous sources as well as ask for help here, which has given me access to translated extracts from the Knýtlingesaga courtesy of a couple of Scandinavian forum users. Many thanks to those who helped.
King Svend and his one universally accepted queen, Gunhild Sveinsdatter, had a son named Svend prior to their divorce (which had been forced on them by the Pope on threat of excommunication). He was therefore the King's only legitimate son; now... at this point, it is possible that there was a third (or rather first, as he would have been the eldest of the three) son named Svend, or that the son in question is in fact none other than Svend Korsfarer (ID 101553).
Code:
101553 = {
name="Svend" #Korsfarer
dynasty=487
martial=6
diplomacy=5
intrigue=4
stewardship=5
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]bastard[/COLOR]"
add_trait="zealous"
add_trait="brave"
add_trait="tough_soldier"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]mother=102516 # Gunhild Sveinsdatter[/COLOR]
105[COLOR="#FF8C00"]3[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="105[COLOR="#FF8C00"]3[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1095.1.1={
add_spouse=91008 #Florine de Bourgogne
}
1096.1.1={
add_trait="crusader"
give_nickname=nick_the_crusader
}
1097.1.1={
death="1097.1.1"
}
}Now, I know this may seem controversial but let me explain. Firstly, I think it's unlikely that Svend had three sons named after him; two (one a bastard and one not) is more likely, and the dates do seem to add up. It's said that Svend and Gunnhild had a son, but he never became king despite being both legitimate and one of the king's eldest sons. My personal theory here is that it was due to the nature of his parents' marriage; as I've mentioned, Svend and Gunnhild's marriage was considered illegal by the Church on the grounds that it was seen to be incestuous, hence its swift annulment. Svend was a great ally of the Papacy and did much to entrench Christianity in Denmark, paying for many dozens of churches to be built across the kingdom, as well as sending his son Knud to be crowned in Rome (presumably as co-king and thus Svend's heir, as was very common at the time) and lobbying for the canonization of Harald Bluetooth. As it happens, one of Svend's own sons (the second Knud) was himself canonized shortly after his death.
Now, the point here is that if you examine the relative ages of Svend's sons (and I know they're not consistent among sources, but there is a general agreement as to who the elder sons were) it's easy to see that Svend Korsfarer was among the eldest, and yet several of his younger half-siblings became king in his place. Why is this? It was always said that Svend's 'pact' with the Danes was that his sons would inherit in succession (before any children they themselves had) whilst at least one survived, at which point other candidates could be elected by the Ting. With Svend being the product of an incestuous and annulled marriage, however, it is quite likely that he would have been made exempt from the kingship, which was pretty rare given that even bastards born to concubines were able to inherit.
This would certainly explain why both Erik Ejegod (ID 101521) and Svend Tronkræver (ID 101526, the other Svend) thought themselves eligible in preference to Svend Korsfarer. You can even look at the generally accepted birth dates on Wikipedia to check this from a fairly well-known public source.
Admittedly without my explanation, both of these (1 & 2) sources seem to suggest that he may have indeed been the son of Svend and Gunnhild, and so the idea that Svend Korsfarer was treated as a true bastard during his lifetime (a rarity in Denmark, but then again so were marriages annulled by the Pope) would definitely explain why he never became king and later decided to 'take up the cross.'
As always, feel free to disagree with my analysis, but I think it makes sense; from King Svend's point of view (remember he was a big public supporter of the Church) his son's exclusion wouldn't really have been a problem as he had loads of other half-brothers to succeed him, so he may have seen it as a sacrifice worth making so as to garner favor with the Papacy. Nor is there any evidence that the elder Svend tried to usurp the throne from any of his younger brothers, as if it was simply understood that he had no claim. Finally, the Saga specifically only mentions two sons named Svend, which would logically be Korsfarer and Tronkræver.
Next, King Svend's oldest son, Knud Magnus.
Code:
101528 = {
name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Knud[/COLOR]"
# AKA: Knud [COLOR="#FF0000"]Magnus[/COLOR]
dynasty=487
martial=8
diplomacy=4
intrigue=4
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="honest"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="tough_soldier"
father=101515 # Svend Estridsson
10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]39[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]39[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1058.1.1={
death="1058.1.1"
}
}I'd just go with Knud, as that's the name given in the Saga as Svend's eldest bastard. He is dead by 1066, and is the child sent to be crowned by the Pope in Rome. This was in his father's lifetime of course, so he'd just have been crowned as a co-ruler and to confirm his succession. This sort of thing was very popular in England and France at the time. The name Magnus almost certainly stems from confusion with another possible (but in my eyes, highly unlikely) child of Svend's with Tora Torbergsdatter. I've explained above why this is almost certainly not an historically valid relationship, and therefore why Magnus probably never existed. Incidentally, he isn't mentioned in the Saga either. I've also made him slightly older than Harald Hen (ID 101517) -- the next oldest brother -- as they currently have the same birth year, whereas Knud should be older as he was clearly heir-presumptive until his death.
Speaking of Harald, I'd just alter his traits slightly.
Code:
101517 = {
name="Harald"
# Hein
dynasty=487
martial=6
diplomacy=8
intrigue=7
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="kind"
add_trait="content"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="honest"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="slothful"[/COLOR]
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]naive_appeaser[/COLOR]" # insead of 'amateurish_plotter'
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1041.1.1={
birth="1041.1.1"
}
1057.1.1={
add_spouse=101518 #Margrete Asbjørnsdatter
}
1080.4.17={
death="1080.4.17"
}
}Judging from descriptions of Harald, I think those are slightly more fitting traits; Saxo Grammaticus says that Harald was possessed by 'an everlasting slothful inertia' since boyhood whilst Wikipedia words Saxo's description as 'a weak and ineffective king yielding to the will of the common people,' whilst adding that 'he is also described as a man who let others control his actions, possessing a mild temper.'
The next brother, Knud den Hellige (ID 101519) seems fine to me, though I will add that his daughters were in fact twins, and not born several years apart as they are currently.
Code:
101550 = {
name="Ingegerd"
# AKA: Ingegerd Knudsdatter
female=yes
dynasty=487
martial=4
diplomacy=5
intrigue=5
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="twin"[/COLOR]
add_trait="thrifty_clerk"
father=101519 # Knud the Holy of Denmark
mother=369 # Adele of Flandres
108[COLOR="#FF8C00"]6[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="108[COLOR="#FF8C00"]6[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1135.1.1={
death="1135.1.1"
}
}
Code:
101551 = {
name="Cecilia"
# AKA: Cecilia Knudsdatter
female=yes
dynasty=487
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="twin"[/COLOR]
add_trait="thrifty_clerk"
father=101519 # Knud the Holy of Denmark
mother=369 # Adele of Flandres
108[COLOR="#FF8C00"]6[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="108[COLOR="#FF8C00"]6[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1131.1.1={
death="1131.1.1"
}
}Ingegerd's husband Folke the Fat (ID 200535) is in the game, but Cecilia seems to be unmarried. This source (scroll down) says she married a guy by the name of Erik Jarl, and they had two sons. No idea who he is, though, and whether or not he's important, or even in the game.
Next up is Oluf Hunger (ID 101520), sho seems to have been cursed (or not far off).
Code:
101520 = {
name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Oluf[/COLOR]" # Hunger
dynasty=487
martial=8
diplomacy=7
intrigue=4
stewardship=4
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="cynical"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="weak"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="depressed"[/COLOR]
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]indulgent_wastrel[/COLOR]" # insead of 'amateurish_plotter'
father=101515 # Svend Estridsson
1050.1.1={
birth="1050.1.1"
}
1071.1.1={
add_spouse=102535 # Ingegerd Haraldsdotter
}
1095.8.18={
death="1095.8.18"
}
}His biography and cause of death are both pretty fascinating, and he seems to have been a character right out of Shakespeare. Amusingly, by giving him the 'depressed' trait the player (as Oluf) would actually be able to kill himself, which is sort of suggested he did. :laugh:
The next brother, Erik Ejegod (already linked to above) seems fine to me. He was a much better king and already has a good set of traits. I'm not sure about this bit, though:
Code:
101521 = {
name="Erik" # 'Ejegod'
dynasty=487
martial=7
diplomacy=7
intrigue=6
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="gregarious"
add_trait="strong"
add_trait="just"
add_trait="charitable"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="charismatic_negotiator"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
[COLOR="#FF0000"]mother=102562 #Rannveig Tordsdatter[/COLOR]
1055.1.1={
birth="1055.1.1"
}
1072.1.1={
add_spouse=101548 # Bodil Thrugotsdatter
}
1075.1.1={
give_nickname=nick_the_good
}
1103.7.10={
death="1103.7.10"
}
}
Code:
[COLOR="#FFFF00"]102562 = {
name="Rannveig"
female = yes
dynasty=447
martial=7
diplomacy=8
intrigue=6
stewardship=4
religion="catholic"
culture="norwegian"
add_trait="chaste"
add_trait="honest"
add_trait="scholarly_theologian"
father=102561
1026.1.2={
birth="1026.1.2"
}
1076.1.2={
death="1076.1.2"
}
}[/COLOR]I can't seem to find any information about this woman, and she's also listed as the mother of Ingrid (ID 101516):
Code:
101516 = {
name="Ingrid"
female=yes
dynasty=487
martial=7
diplomacy=8
intrigue=5
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="arbitrary"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="thrifty_clerk"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
[COLOR="#FF0000"]mother=102562 #Rannveig Tordsdatter[/COLOR]
1052.1.1={
birth="1052.1.1"
}
1099.1.1={
death="1099.1.1"
}
}There's no mention of any of King Svend's concubines being named specifically, and Wikipedia says that Erik and Ingrid's mothers are unknown. Now obviously I could be wrong here, and if this is something that's been proven and I just don't know about it then fine, but if indeed this is a mistake (source?) I think she should be removed. As far as I can see, the only one of Svend's children who should have a mother specified is Svend Korsfarer.
The last of King Svend's sons to become king was Niels (ID 101530) who seems fine as far as I can tell. Information about him seems quite vague ('mild and forthcoming, though not a competent ruler') and his dates seem accurate, so I'll leave him be.
So now it's 'just' a case of tidying up the other kids...
Code:
101527 = {
name="Sigrid"
female=yes
dynasty=487
martial=5
diplomacy=5
intrigue=5
stewardship=4
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]legit_bastard[/COLOR]"
add_trait="humble"
add_trait="charismatic_negotiator"
father=101515 # Svend Estridsson
104[COLOR="#FF8C00"]2[/COLOR].9.1={
birth="104[COLOR="#FF8C00"]2[/COLOR].9.1"
}
10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]67[/COLOR].1.1={
death="10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]67[/COLOR].1.1"
}
}Sigrid should definitely be born earlier, as she's supposed to have a son, Henrik (ID 8402) in 1062. This source suggests 1042/3 as a year of birth, which seems sensible, so I've opted for 1042 so she doesn't have the same birth year as some of her other siblings. As for her death date, see Voy's suggestion here.
The previously mentioned Svend Tronkræver was (it is generally thought) the eldest surviving brother after the death of Erik Ejegod; this is presumably why he tried to arrange his own coronation before Niels could beat him to it, but he apparently fell ill and continued anyway, dying not long after. Thus, Niels (the last surviving son of King Svend still in Denmark) became king. It's worth pointing out that the Saga lists Svend as being older than Erik, which is possible, but this may be inaccurate as previously the succession appears to have gone from brother to brother in order of seniority. However, Svend's apparent rush to get himself crowned before Niels may suggest that he was passed over in the succession before and feared the same may have happened again. I'll go with the majority verdict, though, which is that Svend was younger than Erik and so no date changes are needed.
Code:
101526 = {
name="Svend" # 'Tronkræver'
dynasty=487
martial=5
diplomacy=5
intrigue=4
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]wroth[/COLOR]"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="deceitful"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="ambitious"[/COLOR]
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]underhanded_rogue[/COLOR]" # insead of 'thrifty_clerk'
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1056.1.2={
birth="1056.1.2"
}
1103.7.10={
add_trait="ill"
}
1103.7.10={
give_nickname=nick_the_usurper
}
1104.6.2={
death="1104.6.2"
}
}Regarding his traits, though, I do not think he should be 'patient' as he appears to have been quite the opposite, and indeed his lack of patience is exactly what killed him. Usurpers are by definition ambitious, and I think this collection of traits will better represent him as a threat to his other brothers. The idea is that there was a lot of infighting among King Svend's children, and so some of them being ambitious is ideal.
The next brother is Thorgils (ID 101529), who should have a slight name change (the link is Torgils_Torkel):
Code:
101529 = {
name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Torgils[/COLOR]"
dynasty=487
martial=6
diplomacy=5
intrigue=7
stewardship=5
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="clubfooted"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="tough_soldier"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]59[/COLOR].1.2={
birth="10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]59[/COLOR].1.2"
}
1110.1.2={
death="1110.1.2"
}
}Little is known of Torgils except that he is listed as the eighth brother in the Saga and probably emigrated to Russia. To quote a user in the OT forum (who translated the Saga into Danish), Torgils 'traveled east to Garderige (Russia), where he had a respectable Lineage from his mother. There he was raised and taken as King and never returned to Denmark.' This site confirms his destination, though no death date is given. His birth year seems about right, as it would make him younger than Erik and Svend, though I'll make him a year older so he's not born the same time as Sigurd. It'd be interesting to see who his Russian family were, but unfortunately I have absolutely no idea.
The next brother is Sigurd, who I'll come to later as he is currently missing.
Then, Benedikt (ID 101523), who is currently too old and has (IMO) the wrong education trait:
Code:
101523 = {
name="Benedikt"
dynasty=487
martial=8
diplomacy=5
intrigue=5
stewardship=5
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="strong"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="temperate"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="diligent"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="content"[/COLOR]
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]tough_soldier[/COLOR]" # insead of 'flamboyant_schemer'
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]61[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]61[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1086.7.10={
death="1086.7.10"
}
}Benedikt was Knud den Hellige's favorite brother and the head of the royal bodyguard. Thus, we can assume he was loyal and served his brother well until they were murdered together in 1086. He is listed both in the Saga and on the usual Internet sources as being born inbetween Sigurd...
...and Bjørn (ID 101525):
Code:
101525 = {
name="Bjørn"
# AKA: Bjorn
dynasty=487
martial=7
diplomacy=8
intrigue=7
stewardship=7
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="misguided_warrior"[/COLOR]
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1062.1.1={
birth="1062.1.1"
}
1100.1.1={
death="1100.1.1"
}
}Currently Bjørn has no education trait, so we can fix that. His dates are fine; he was apparently murdered in Rendsburg in 1100.
The next two brothers, Gorm (or Guttorm) and Ømund (or Eymund) are also missing, and so they go between Bjørn and Niels.
Finally (at last!) we can add the four missing brothers. There's actually no reason not to add these as they're all alive in 1066 and so can have a lot of gameplay impact. I've included the brothers listed in the Saga (and there are references to them among the other sources used herein), so not Karl listed here.
NEW:
Code:
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]xxxxxx = {
name="Sigurd"
dynasty=487
martial=6
diplomacy=4
intrigue=5
stewardship=4
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="tough_soldier"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1060.1.2={
birth="1060.1.2"
}
1089.1.2={
death="1089.1.2"
}
}[/COLOR]Sigurd died fighting the Wends in Pomerania, though we don't know when. He was a younger son who died whilst he still had living older brothers who were kings, which would explain why there's so little information about him. He probably didn't marry.
Code:
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]xxxxxx = {
name="Gorm"
# AKA: Guttorm
dynasty=487
martial=5
diplomacy=4
intrigue=3
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="twin"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="thrifty_clerk"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1063.1.2={
birth="1063.1.2"
}
1091.1.2={
death="1091.1.2"
}
}
xxxxxx = {
name="Ømund"
# AKA: Eymund
dynasty=487
martial=7
diplomacy=5
intrigue=4
stewardship=4
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="twin"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="martial_cleric"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1063.1.2={
birth="1063.1.2"
}
1099.1.2={
death="1099.1.2"
}
}[/COLOR]I've made these two twins because we don't know much about them other than they both probably died before Niels became king.
Finally, the youngest son Ulf (or Ubbe) who apparently died in 1104.
Code:
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]xxxxxx = {
name="Ulf"
# AKA: Ubbe
dynasty=487
martial=3
diplomacy=4
intrigue=4
stewardship=2
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="indulgent_wastrel"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
1065.1.2={
birth="1065.1.2"
}
1104.1.2={
death="1104.1.2"
}
}[/COLOR]There's some confusion about Ulf; he may have been older as it is suggested that his ascension was discussed (but he refused) after the death of Erik Ejegod, meaning he would likely have been the next oldest brother by order of seniority. That is speculative, though, and the Saga lists him as Svend's youngest son whilst Danish Wikipedia puts him before Niels, and so the second youngest brother.
And very quickly just to tidy the other daughters up (so their births are spread out a bit more):
Code:
101522 = {
name="Ragnhild"
female=yes
dynasty=487
martial=4
diplomacy=4
intrigue=4
stewardship=8
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="martial_cleric"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
104[COLOR="#FF8C00"]4[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="104[COLOR="#FF8C00"]4[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1092.1.2={
death="1092.1.2"
}
}
Code:
101524 = {
name="Gunhild"
female=yes
dynasty=487
martial=4
diplomacy=8
intrigue=6
stewardship=8
religion="catholic"
culture="danish"
add_trait="legit_bastard"
add_trait="flamboyant_schemer"
father=101515 #Svend Estridsson
10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]46[/COLOR].1.1={
birth="10[COLOR="#FF8C00"]46[/COLOR].1.1"
}
1100.1.1={
death="1100.1.1"
}
}To recap, the list in order of birth should be:
- Knud (ID 101528) -- 1039
- Harald Hen (ID 101517) -- 1041
- Sigrid (ID 101527) -- 1042
- Knud den Hellige (ID 101519) -- 1043
- Ragnhild (ID 101522) -- 1044
- Gunhild (ID 101524) -- 1046
- Oluf Hunger (ID 101520) -- 1050
- Ingrid (ID 101516) -- 1052
- Svend Korsfarer (ID 101553) -- 1053 *
- Erik Ejegod (ID 101521) -- 1055
- Svend Tronkræver (ID 101526) -- 1056
- Torgils (ID 101529) -- 1059
- Sigurd (new ID) -- 1060
- Benedikt (ID 101523) -- 1061
- Bjørn (ID 101525) -- 1062
- Gorm (new ID) -- 1063 (twin)
- Ømund (new ID) -- 1063 (twin)
- Niels (ID 101530) -- 1064
- Ulf (new ID) -- 1065
I think that's everything. Please let me know if I've made any typos or you disagree with anything. Given the material available, though, I think I've done a thorough job.
All children should be legitimized bastards apart from Svend Korsfarer* who should be a normal bastard but with his mother specified. This is a kind of special case, though there were likely other examples of this I'm unaware of.
This was a hell of a lot of work so I hope someone at least bothers to read thru it all. It's certainly not that hard to actually implement this stuff, it just takes a long time to do the research and type it up.
oThanks.
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