Some characters should be infertile

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awzc26

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As of the moment there seems to be very little risk of your character dying without a bunch of children - marry at 16 and you are all but guaranteed to have a brood of five or more princes and princesses running around your palace. My suggestion is that there should be a hidden trait, 'Infertile', which affects around one in fifty individuals (I think that is the rough prevalence), and would make it impossible for that character to have children. This would in turn lead to more interesting successions with different branches of the family inheriting things, and would make the game more unpredictable in general, which is always good.
 

brothir

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Terrible idea.
 

frolix42

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It would be more historically accurate, but it would make a full 867-1453 campaign extremely frustrating.
 

Dayni

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Fertility acts as a modifier as is. On top of that, you might not have many kids at all due to how these events trigger. In a game, I saw the amount of kids my king have decrease to three. This was a worrying thing to look at, so thankfully the next character was much better at having kids. Also, hidden trait? Are you really willing to cause a riot?

(On top of that, adding an infertile trait will cause at least 5 threads along the lines of "How 2 kur infurtl". And I'm pretty sure nobody wants to see that.)
 

classicist

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I seem to remember wondering whether CK1 had that sort of thing - I mean hidden infertility. It used to have many characters who remained inexplicably childless.
 

Trunting

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Indeed, that would be a really cool trait. As it is right now, you've got too much offspring.
 

Darktrip

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Hidden? I mean, doesn't he/she eventually find out? Like after 10 years of trying to have children that something is wrong. Especially if you are a muslim man with multiple wives.

No, I don't buy this idea. Increase the difficulty level of the game and the fertility rate comes down!
 

Trunting

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You do know, that ppl back at this time didnt know about how children were produced?
 

classicist

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You do know, that ppl back at this time didnt know about how children were produced?

That's quite a generalization. Mediaeval world is hardly a single uniform context, so it is hardly representative to point to it as some sort of huge swathe of Trobriand-islander style lack of knowledge on reproductive details.
 

WankoStankins

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There doesn't have to be an infertility trait. Just increase the fertility range to allow for people to be born with extremely low to no fertility.
 

classicist

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There doesn't have to be an infertility trait. Just increase the fertility range to allow for people to be born with extremely low to no fertility.

This would be ideal.
 

Sunbro BigBoss

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There doesn't have to be an infertility trait. Just increase the fertility range to allow for people to be born with extremely low to no fertility.

I agree with that, although the hidden trait is also cool. I like the idea of not having children and not knowing why, wondering if the problem is yours or your wife's, getting new wives to try to get a child and giving a good tumble to every female living being in your realm in pure desperation...
And just imagine the chaos if you have elective or gavelkind, it sounds great to me.
 

awzc26

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+1 but don't make it a hidden trait. Make it like chaste but instead you just get completely infertile. The game already represents the partially infertile well but not the completely infertile. I wouldn't make it a common trait though.

Hence why I said around 1 in 50 chance should be about right (medically as well as gameplay wise). I'm curious though, why not have it as a hidden trait? People don't know if they're infertile or not (except in the modern age where you could visit a doctor to find out) and as Sunbro says, it would add an element of desperation to the game as your character just did not get children.

I'm surprised anyone is reacting negatively to this idea - I do not think I have ever played with a ruler who has failed to have children to continue on the dynasty.

Hidden? I mean, doesn't he/she eventually find out? Like after 10 years of trying to have children that something is wrong. Especially if you are a muslim man with multiple wives.

No, I don't buy this idea. Increase the difficulty level of the game and the fertility rate comes down!

Exactly. You find out after ten or so years of trying. If you know your character is infertile from 16, you would already be planning ahead for his brothers succession which seems to defeat the point a bit.
 

ShadeDragon

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This would be a ginormous pain in the arse for the lesser known characters who start out with few or no dynasty members. A lot of these guys have randomized traits and it would be more than a pain to random infertile and end up doomed before the game even really starts.
 

Jokolytic

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Infertile should only come as a very rare trait (1 out of 10000 maybe) and already celibate and eunuch cover the particular cases.
 

xBasilisk

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What about the trait being triggered by a marriage not producing children for X amount of years? You get an event saying that you or your wife cannot produce children, and then get intrigue decisions to divorce your wife, adopt a child and pass it as your own, or maybe a few other options. This way the trait isn't known by the player in advance but at the same time can't be missed later in a character's life.
 

awzc26

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Infertile should only come as a very rare trait (1 out of 10000 maybe) and already celibate and eunuch cover the particular cases.

Why 1 out of 10000? The rate is far higher in real life. 1 in 50 would still mean that in all likelihood you won't have an infertile character in a campaign.

This would be a ginormous pain in the arse for the lesser known characters who start out with few or no dynasty members. A lot of these guys have randomized traits and it would be more than a pain to random infertile and end up doomed before the game even really starts.

It would be a pain in the arse I know. That's the point. Obstacles such as this are what make the game fun. There is a loading screen that states that if you are old and childless your vassals or family members may demand your titles. This has never happened to me once, but I kinda wish it had. It sounds fun.
 

Halcyan

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A. Human players make better choices than the AI does.

B. I still see plenty of cases of infertility, though rarely with the character I am playing. I see landed dynasty members die all the time without heirs. I have unlanded dynasty members in my court who have trouble having kids (even though my court is relatively small).

In one recent Indian game, I matrilinieally married a Strong daughter to a Sayyid Fatimid (to get Sayyid into my blood line). Married them off when they were 16. By 30 they had a single kid (fortunately, a boy, for Sayyid). I cycled through all the siblings (it was Ultimogeniture) until I got to play the Strong daughter, but even then she only ended up having a single kid.

I always start to get worried when the woman has hit 30 and still hasn't had a kid yet.

It is easier with male characters since you can still procreate when you are old (not to mention the option of multiple wives or concubines). The game is A LOT tougher when playing as female character due to the much smaller reproductive window.