Some buildings are realy weak, or even hurt you building them.

[crysanja]

Some of the buildings are realy weak and its questionable to build them.
All buildings lack proper tooltips to evalueate them.

A: Lets start with the dock and its upgrade the drydock.
The dock is 200 gold for 2 naval force limit.
To be over the naval force limit is like 0.1 gold a month i guess.
With 2 force limit its 0.2 gold a month - so it would pay for itself in about 83 years.
However this requires you to actualy be on your foce limit or over it, for 83 years.
The drydock is the same, except for 2x values.

I would realy like some improvements to this building. it does not need to be more force limit, it could be other statts, or a cut in price.
About the tooltip in the building screen - it should show the number of years to break even for 2 over force limit + modifiers.


B: Courthouse and town hall
They both reduce unrest, but nothing else
200 gold 3 unrest and an additional 200 for 2 unrest

I have never build them.
You propably would need to prevent multiple revolts to get any value out of this.
A courthouse or town hall seem to be importand buildings in the real world, maybe they should be more importand here too.


C: Temple and cathedral
The temple seems to be a reasonable building, lets look at a few values.
40% additional taxes for 100 gold building costs.
BT: 1 Gold/Month: 0,03 break even: 250 Years
BT: 3 Gold/Month: 0,1 break even: 83
BT: 6 Gold/Month: 0,2 break even: 41
BT: 10 Gold/Month: 0,33 break even: 25

It does not realy look like a reasonable investment for todays values, however you will have it for a long long time.


The cathedral is a compleatly other thing.
Im not sure if its worth building it at all, maybe in some exceptional circumstances.
20% additional taxes, 3 missionary strength for 200 gold building costs.
BT: 1 Gold/Month: 0,016 break even: 1000 Years
BT: 3 Gold/Month: 0,05 break even: 333
BT: 6 Gold/Month: 0,1 break even: 166
BT: 10 Gold/Month: 0,17 break even: 100

With thouse values this is a waste of youre gold, unless you realy want the missionary strenght,
or you have an extreme BT value.
In additon you can build this only with tech 19 admin which is reached around 1650.
Less then 200 years to play.

I would say this needs improvements bady.
About provinc building tooltip, it would be nice to see the number of years needed to break even.


D: University
Does not use a building slot, 20% cheaper development for 300 gold.

Seems not usefull for larger empires, this is for building tall.
There should be reasons to build thouse for expanding empires.


E: Production buildings
Thouse are very difficult to evalueate, because they earn in different ways.
Your production modifieres work with manufactories, and they both increase the values of their tradenodes.

The counting house comes very late to break even with a building cost of 300 gold.
Manufactories have in general a hard time, because of the very high costs.
There should be improvements for manufactories with very cheap goods, like fish( about 2 gold or less)


F: Trade buildings

They seem only usefull in provinces which have estuaries or importand centers of trade.
Building trade ships seems to be more economic, as long as they are not sunk

I think this is realy sad. The buildings should be more usefull in any province, not just in a very few.
Maybe a flat trade power modifier or like in previous versions trade value would make this more usefull.

The Stock exchange comes very late tech 22, with a low modifier of 25% - propably never worth building.


---

As time goes by in eu4 buildings loose value.
In the last 100-150 years of the game, most buildings cant return much.
Maybe there should be a function in game, which reduces building costs over time.
It would be nice to build manufactories and other buildings, in the last 100 years, without running a loss.

 

[War_lord]

Sooo... basically you're complaining that building stock exchanges in the Siberian steppe isn't cost effective? Amazing.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

The drydock is great.

Might have something to do that I am playing Netherlands with Maritime, Exploration and Quantity, but it is still great.

 

[Crenickator]

I think he's sort of right.
Temple is kind of a no brainer, and nothing else really compares. Production and Trade buildings can be useful, but I think they only get the most bang for your buck if you have rare resources. Some, like drydocks, can be marginally useful, but I share the opinion they cost a little too much for what they provide. Others, like Courthouses, I've never built, ever.

 

[Utretch]

Court Houses are definitely completely useless. You'll be better off raising mercenaries to smash rebels with the 200 gold and save a building slot.

 

[kviiri]

To be over the naval force limit is like 0.1 gold a month i guess.

Your guess would be wrong for many sets of parameters, though. The cost increases in proportion to your entire navy as well as your navy's size to the force limit. This means even small infractions of force limits can easily cost a nice chunk of cash. For example, for 11 heavies and 20 light ships with force limit 30 you pay about 0.2 ducats a month extra for just having one extra ship - a whopping double of your guess. For larger navies the penalty is bigger - but then again, I usually have no trouble sticking to the forcelimits as a larger country.

 

[Anatur]

The courthouse is totally useless,since most of the time unrest is either irrelevant or unstoppable,not much middle ground.

Maybe add a stability cost reduction to the courthouses to represent the maintaining of civil order in the state,that would make it more worthwhile and make sense.

 

[grommile]

Maybe add a stability cost reduction to the courthouses to represent the maintaining of civil order in the state,that would make it more worthwhile and make sense.

The stability cost reduction from a single courthouse would (necessarily) be tiny, and building slots are a precious commodity.

 

[Anatur]

It would better repressent a long term investment in national stability.

In the sense that the stability cost was reduced by the percentage of provinces with courthouses,so a OPM with one would have the same reduction as a larger nation with courthouses in all 10 provinces.

Less of a fixed cost reduction per province and more of a general reduction dependant on how widespread the judificary is in the nation.

 

[grommile]

In the sense that the stability cost was reduced by the percentage of provinces with courthouses,so a OPM with one would have the same reduction as a larger nation with courthouses in all 10 provinces.

If I'm an OPM, I have no reason to blow a building slot on reducing my stability cost, because I'm not spending ADM on cores.

If I'm a ten-province country, I probably have better things to spend my ducats on than reducing my stability cost.

If I'm a 40-province country, I probably care rather more what my stability cost is... and at the same time, can't really afford to carpet the country with Courthouses.

 

[3ishop]

I'd say maybe have it give a province modifier for autonomy reduction. Say -0.01 a month?

 

[Utretch]

I'd say maybe have it give a province modifier for autonomy reduction. Say -0.01 a month?

Even if it was something more like -0.03 or -0.05 it still wouldn't be all that great, autonomy ticks down fast enough anyway that I'd rather spend the money and slot on a temple.

 

[Anatur]

Maybe make it give a cash bonus then?

I mean one of muscovys nation ideas directly states that expanding the number of offenses will make it easier to take peoples money.

And back then the usual ways of punishment were financial,beatings or death,so at least 1/3 should be profitable.

 

[kviiri]

I'd say maybe have it give a province modifier for autonomy reduction. Say -0.01 a month?

Autonomy reduction is just bad. It's something you don't have to think of most of the time (when autonomy is already at zero).

 

[Denkt]

Courthouse could remove or reduce the penalties from wrong culture and religion while Town hall could do the same but to neighbouring provinces as well.

That way they become an rather expansive way to control areas of wrong culture and religion.

Cathedral could be changed to 80% tax efficiency to make it twice as effective as the temple as the missionary bonus is not that powerful.

 

[3ishop]

Autonomy reduction is just bad. It's something you don't have to think of most of the time (when autonomy is already at zero).

And if you are at 0 autonomy you don't need reduction of unrest. Currently it's for places that have unrest which tends to tie in with autonomy.

Even if it was something more like -0.03 or -0.05 it still wouldn't be all that great, autonomy ticks down fast enough anyway that I'd rather spend the money and slot on a temple.

Was to work with the idea of it lowering unrest as unrest and autonomy go hand in hand would make more sense. Currently wouldn't mind it in my current game as I'm at war so often in the HRE that autonomy hardly changes.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

When you're calculating how long a building takes to pay itself back, don't forget the various ways you can reduce building cost.

Also, events that give you money base the amount of money you get on your monthly income. Building temples and workshops and the like makes those events more profitable. It also reduces the inflation you get from gold provinces and from taking gold in a peace deal. And, because each loan you take is worth more, if you get into a circumstance where you need loans, you'll use fewer loans and thus get less inflation from them.

 

[crysanja]

Happy to see so many replays =)

@Republic of Mercury
Yes there are events which give money, however, there are events were you loose money too. Parlament is effected as well.
About building cost reductions, yes they make buildings better, but are 10-20% a huge change? Inflation is also increasing building costs, as well as bad terrain.

@War_lord
With the trade buildings you need a reasonable high base trade value on youre provinces or you get something like a trade ship for a marketplace in return.
Even with high development, lets say 30 you only get 6 trade power - your return on a stockexchange is 25% of 6 - 1.5 which is less then a bark - for a premium of 200 gold.
Its not like 3 tradepower from a marketplace or trade depot is much better.

@docks/drydocks
What i dont like about the dock is, that it only gives you value when you are at the naval cap, or over it.
So when you are at peace or in a winning position. - when you loose a war, you propably dont have youre forcelimit caped - you dont get any return at all.
Even when you win a war, you are propably going to loose a few ships -> value of the building lost.

I guess i would prefer the dock to just pay for a ship or two instead of increaseing the forcelimit.
Maybe make ship missions more effective in the trade node.
Or just give it some additional statts =)

Over all for most nations ships are very optional thing. Yes a siege might be slower, you might not be able to ship troops.
But sometimes you can ship youre troops before the war =)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I guess i would prefer the dock to just pay for a ship or two instead of increaseing the forcelimit.
Maybe make ship missions more effective in the trade node.
Or just give it some additional statts =)

Docks are one of the situational ones that have real justification IMO, unlike most of the others. If you have idea group investment giving you +% naval FL, if you spec for that a single +2 FL building will give you +4 FL overall, and for a rich nation you can therefore add 100-200 force limit to naval over time. While extremely expensive, that would in theory let you massacre the navy of someone who didn't invest that way (it's pretty hard to go 100 over naval FL with anything but galleys, and still expensive then).

The problem with docks is that naval dominance in general is usually not a big deal, but these buildings can nevertheless help you out. Military FL buildings usually don't come with the manpower to back them...and the manpower buildings themselves seem a bit weak...but naval doesn't have manpower limitations so these can make sense if you're wealthy. As you pointed out, it's not like there's many better options in most cases.

Other than that I have a hard time justify anything but temples in high BT provinces and stuff like manufactories + production efficiency bonuses in the really valuable stuff. Well, some manufactories are worth it for the goods bonus too (ivory is freaking excellent if wanting vassal/annex strats, salt doubles-down in its return if you get the trading bonus, cocoa has a nice base value and decent trading bonus).

 

[Vlad123]

If you use the mod extended time line, you play(with commonsense DLC) you refound complete all investimens