Some Advice please

[Spartan1of300]

Hey all, love this game and I'm about 120 hours into it but barely scratching the surface I think.

Do you have any advice for playing as Italy? When I attacked Yugoslavia, guaranteed by UK and France of course all hell broke loose. I thought I had Libya, Ethiopia, and Yemen well defended with plenty of divisions but they could not hold off the Allies. I positioned them in a front line at the borders.

What is the best way to defend territories abroad as Italy?

If the Allies control the seas I assume my troops far away will be starved for supplies?

Do you know of a good source for template design?


Thanks all!

 

[duke engin]

Scratching the surface is the most fun part imho. There's a lot to go through but you have to start somewhere.

1. If you're at war with the UK, Suez is blocked and you are no longer able to supply Ethiopia and Somalia. So, give up on those and save your divisions from dying there before you go to war with UK, or make sure you take Suez as soon as possible.

2. To field a better army, what people call "space marines" are a viable choice for any country. Design a light tank, preferably with the improved light tank 1936 chassis. If you can't prioritize to research that, 1934 basic light tank would work as well but it will be more expensive to get desired armor value.

Spoiler: The tank research

3. The desired armor value is at least 12, ideally 15-16. It is possible with the already researched 1934 light tank (basic light tank) shown below. Highly advised to at least research basic armor protection for welded armor though. The 15-16 number is desired so that you divisions using a single battalion of that will have just enough to be safely armoured against infantry.

More on optimal armor value stuff in the guide linked below with the signature at the bottom of this post.

4. The below design is possible right at the start but it costs 18 army XP, 10 of that XP from sloped armor. Would be better to get welded armor researched and use that instead.

Spoiler: Which design? This design

5. The recon company also needs to be researched to be able to add these tanks to your infantry divisions with minimal cost. Armored recon company needs only 24 pieces of light tank while a normal light tank battalion needs 60.

Spoiler: Get this

6. An example template from the Divisione di Fanteria below. Two more infantry, one artillery and one anti air battalion is added to this (You may add the artilleries as support for a bit more XP as well). You also need armored recon company in addition to this as support when it is researched. The total cost for this template will be 30 army XP then.

Spoiler: Template

When you get this cheap but effective template going, the AI is helpless against your divisions because it can't pierce it early game. Hope you find any use in this and have fun!

 

[Spartan1of300]

Thanks a bunch duke. You've given me a lot to check into. I've never delved into designing tanks or anything else. I've never seen those tank options to the right and left of the tank kinds in your first screenshot. Is that DLC, mod, or something that needs to be researched?

Yeah, I've been having fun learning for sure.

Thanks!

 

[Corpse Fool]

Thanks a bunch duke. You've given me a lot to check into. I've never delved into designing tanks or anything else. I've never seen those tank options to the right and left of the tank kinds in your first screenshot. Is that DLC, mod, or something that needs to be researched?

Yeah, I've been having fun learning for sure.

Thanks!

That is what the tank research screen looks like if you have the NSB (no step back) dlc.

 

[duke engin]

Thanks a bunch duke. You've given me a lot to check into. I've never delved into designing tanks or anything else. I've never seen those tank options to the right and left of the tank kinds in your first screenshot. Is that DLC, mod, or something that needs to be researched?

Yeah, I've been having fun learning for sure.

Thanks!

If you don't have NSB, then the tank design is not relevant but you can still make use of the same armor values as a benchmark when designing your templates. Other than that, I can say that anti-air is indispensable (especially against UK). Adding some artillery gives you better performing divisions at the cost of more supply usage and combat width. There is no best template, there's just whatever works for your objectives.

 

[Andrew0Red]

Adding some artillery gives you better performing divisions at the cost of more supply usage and combat width. There is no best template, there's just whatever works for your objectives.

To expand, support artillery is almost always a boost to you overall. Line artillery is more situational; it depends on how many ICs you invest per frontline province, and whether you're attacking with these divisions or with something else.

 

[ngazi]

It's not very fun to fight France and Britain at the same time by yourself, unless you prefer cheese. If you keep world tension below 25% by not justifying on Yemen, you can fight France, Yugoslavia, Romania, and Czechoslovakia without Britain joining. It used to be harder to do in old versions but it is pretty easy now.

 

[Spartan1of300]

It's not very fun to fight France and Britain at the same time by yourself, unless you prefer cheese. If you keep world tension below 25% by not justifying on Yemen, you can fight France, Yugoslavia, Romania, and Czechoslovakia without Britain joining. It used to be harder to do in old versions but it is pretty easy now.

Thank you for that bit of advice. I knew it was something I was doing to stir things up. I reached that level and suddenly Britian was guaranteeing everyone!

 

[pnt]

Hey all, love this game and I'm about 120 hours into it but barely scratching the surface I think.

Do you have any advice for playing as Italy? When I attacked Yugoslavia, guaranteed by UK and France of course all hell broke loose.

Perhaps the main question is whether you play historic or not. In a historic playthrough, you don't benefit from early expansion at it pushes up world tension and messes up the timeline. This can lead to a lot of weirdness as countries try to follow a sequence of events that no longer makes sense. If you play historic, leave Yugoslavia until 1941. Maybe you can even make it join the Axis?

In terms of strategy, the main goal of Italy is to take Suez. Whoever controls Suez will eventually control Africa. This in turn means that you need to find a way to neutralize the Royal Navy in the central and western mediterranean, so how you deal with your naval expansion and upgrades is key. In general, Italy will not be able to compete with the UK in terms of industry and resources, so you need to be very cost-effective. And since in NSB was is won by xp, you need to manage your xp very wisely. Italy does not need any tanks, but it needs to make its infantry divisions a little larger. Size 6 divisions are ok in the defense, but take a lot of damage on the offence, so you will need at least 8 inf. In addition, you can benefit from 2-4 motorized divisions. These would not attack the British, but exploit a breakthrough and cut off their retreat. IF you want to use tanks, the existing template is a good starting point. For Italy, 4 LT + 2 Cav is an ideal armor division, for which you can design 6 km/h tanks with low cost, low fuel usage, and high reliability (you will want 100%). Being a little faster than Inf it can still help with encirclements.

But your main focus is your navy. And keep in mind that xp is used both for designs and doctrine - and without the extra org from doctrine your ships will sink quickly. And you need navs and fighters to control the central and eastern med.

EDIT: You will also want to optimize your naval upgrades. Upgrading to the next level tech (e.g., AA1 to AA2) is does not make a big difference and replacing a module is expensive. On the other hand, upgrades do not cost steel, which Italy does not have much of. To get more, upgrade the infra for provinces with resources, but never beyond 4 since you have a focus. And make sure to have a high-level railroad from Rome to Anzio or another nearby port.

It is also worth noting that level 6 commanders can become expert advisors.

Good Luck!

 

[Andrew0Red]

Pardon me for butting in, but:

and high reliability (you will want 100%)

With only 240 light tanks in a division, isn't reliability capped at ca. 95.8%?

(Not that land is a high priority with Italy, I'm just curious if pnt knows something I don't.)

 

[Corpse Fool]

With only 240 light tanks in a division, isn't reliability capped at ca. 95.8%?

In terms of attrition, yes. But reliability impacts more things than just attrition.

 

[Andrew0Red]

But reliability impacts more things than just attrition.

Such as?

 

[Corpse Fool]

Such as?

recovery of that equipment after combat, averaged formation reliability for org recovery/weather effects.

 

[duke engin]

recovery of that equipment after combat, averaged formation reliability for org recovery/weather effects.

which are very tiny when it's about just 1 battalion's equipment in a big division. but, yeah.

good to know it's not that there is NO reason to keep attrition above what the attrition base would take anyway, there IS reason.

When you click/search for reliability in the wiki, you are taken to this page. And it doesn't tell you that.

There are popular guides which fail to mention it and make people unnecessarily add stuff to their designs so that "extra reliability" wouldn't be "wasted".

 

[Corpse Fool]

which are very tiny when it's about just 1 battalion's equipment in a big division. but, yeah.

good to know it's not that there is NO reason to keep attrition above what the attrition base would take anyway, there IS reason.

When you click attrition in the wiki, you are taken to this page. And it doesn't tell you that.

There are popular guides which fail to mention it and make people unnecessarily add stuff to their designs so that "extra reliability" wouldn't be "wasted".

Well, in this particular example we're talking about 4 battalions, not 1.
Why would the attrition page talk about the extra effects of reliability?

 

[duke engin]

Well, in this particular example we're talking about 4 battalions, not 1.
Why would the attrition page talk about the extra effects of reliability?

cause it's where the wiki takes you when you click "reliability" or even search for "reliability" as well.

 

[Corpse Fool]

cause it's where the wiki takes you when you click "reliability" or even search for "reliability" as well.

Again, I somehow completely missed what was being said, even though you laid it right in front me. Thank you for your patience in dealing with me.
In the case of reliability redirecting to attrition, that should probably be changed. Not sure how you would do that though. I have a lot of issues with the structure of the wiki as a whole that I would probably rate a higher priority than this.

 

[duke engin]

Again, I somehow completely missed what was being said, even though you laid it right in front me. Thank you for your patience in dealing with me.
In the case of reliability redirecting to attrition, that should probably be changed. Not sure how you would do that though. I have a lot of issues with the structure of the wiki as a whole that I would probably rate a higher priority than this.

I would like to thank you for the same, I'm just a n00b and always feel grateful for you guys helping out with patience.

Besides, you're a true gem for verified & accumulated knowledge on this game and dealing with mining should never be easy anyway.

 

[Corpse Fool]

you're a true gem for verified & accumulated knowledge

I think that sort of praise should be reserved for the people that I have pulled a lot of this knowledge from, rather than myself. People like bitmode, mister analyst, el nora, pro.gamer.69 here on the forums, and 28lobster from reddit. I'm probably forgetting at least one other person, suffice to say that I'm only where I am through the efforts of others. Rather than considering myself a source, I'd consider myself to mostly repackage/redistribute other peoples efforts. Except for combat width, that one at the very least was what I would have considered my expertise. But we're getting off track.

 

[Spartan1of300]

Perhaps the main question is whether you play historic or not. In a historic playthrough, you don't benefit from early expansion at it pushes up world tension and messes up the timeline. This can lead to a lot of weirdness as countries try to follow a sequence of events that no longer makes sense. If you play historic, leave Yugoslavia until 1941. Maybe you can even make it join the Axis?

In terms of strategy, the main goal of Italy is to take Suez. Whoever controls Suez will eventually control Africa. This in turn means that you need to find a way to neutralize the Royal Navy in the central and western mediterranean, so how you deal with your naval expansion and upgrades is key. In general, Italy will not be able to compete with the UK in terms of industry and resources, so you need to be very cost-effective. And since in NSB was is won by xp, you need to manage your xp very wisely. Italy does not need any tanks, but it needs to make its infantry divisions a little larger. Size 6 divisions are ok in the defense, but take a lot of damage on the offence, so you will need at least 8 inf. In addition, you can benefit from 2-4 motorized divisions. These would not attack the British, but exploit a breakthrough and cut off their retreat. IF you want to use tanks, the existing template is a good starting point. For Italy, 4 LT + 2 Cav is an ideal armor division, for which you can design 6 km/h tanks with low cost, low fuel usage, and high reliability (you will want 100%). Being a little faster than Inf it can still help with encirclements.

But your main focus is your navy. And keep in mind that xp is used both for designs and doctrine - and without the extra org from doctrine your ships will sink quickly. And you need navs and fighters to control the central and eastern med.

EDIT: You will also want to optimize your naval upgrades. Upgrading to the next level tech (e.g., AA1 to AA2) is does not make a big difference and replacing a module is expensive. On the other hand, upgrades do not cost steel, which Italy does not have much of. To get more, upgrade the infra for provinces with resources, but never beyond 4 since you have a focus. And make sure to have a high-level railroad from Rome to Anzio or another nearby port.

It is also worth noting that level 6 commanders can become expert advisors.

Good Luck!

I am playing with Historical AI but I've been trying to play Italy while ignoring the naval aspect of the game except for having Naval superiority when doing a naval invasion. So maybe I need to switch factions or get a better understanding of the Navy in HOI4. Honestly the naval aspect of the game seemed frighteningly confusing to me at first glance so I left it alone. I recently started a new game as Italy and deleted all the built in fleets and task forces so I could learn easier. Easier for me at least. Thank you for your insights!