Soliciting Seelöwe Advice

[xsturmgewehrx]

I'm newer to HOI, picked up AOD a while ago and have been loving it In my German campaigns I have traditionally stomped Russia before turning to the rest of the Western Allies after France. I'd like to change that by trying an early Seelöwe and truly knocking Great Britain out after France, but I am running into all sorts of roadblocks. Some forum searching has led me to believe this is a difficult task (as it should be) … I really don’t want to do the Cardiff drop I’ve read about to satisfy my early Seelöwe wish. I’d prefer a more, well, less-exploiting-the-AI strategy.

What I’ve been doing so far starting from ’36 roughly is first building up some industry, and then splitting IC between surface fleet, air and land. I’ve been skimping more and more on the army to try and buff the fleet and air, but the fleet I eventually muster cannot seem to stand up to the RN, even with NAV bombers hitting ports, and fighters struggling to gain air superiority.

Please for those much more experienced; I’d love as many constructive pointers and/or corrective actions as possible.

 

[CaptRobau]

What's the setting your playing at.

Normally what I do is go for Portsmouth. Build 3 to 6 marine divisions, a few paratroopers and their respective tranport ships and planes. Perhaps another extra 3 transport ships to also load up some infantry for some extra punch. Then I take my entire navy (surface and sub fleets) and station them in the Channel ports. When I'm ready to do the landing I block of the Mouth of the Thames with most of my fleet, while the rest are blocking the other entrance to the Channel. I land my troops. This usually gets me Portsmouth. If my fleet in the Mouth of the Thames is attacked and defeated by the enemy, I move them right back in. They'll take a few STR hits and a lot of ORG hits but that's all worth it. When my transports are done with their landing I use them to transport a few panzer divisions. After that Britain is basically mine. The supplies and oil the units carry will be enough to conquer the islands and that's never necessary because the Royal Navy doesn't go for my convoys and I could always use air supply from the transport planes.

Also, use the province layout to your advantage, by cornering and destroying units.

 

[unmerged(197382)]

Usually in '36 germany games I switch naval doctrines to somthing more CV oriented. However invading Britain is possible even with Germany starting doctrins since in early war years CV aren't that ship killers as they become later. Important condition that should be fulfilled to let you land in England are:
1 - Air supremacy, non just superiority, supremacy
2 - Do not use more than 3 division in your landing attempt. The effectivness will beocme too low, the battle will last longer and you will run out of supply before getting a foot on the beach even if you win.
3 - Have more than the minimum needed transport in your stack, this will help you in the supply issue and will prevent your land division from being "sunk" if your amphibious fleet will be hit during the landing party, TP usually get sunk with incredibile ease.

Paradrop will help but your landing beach coul be out of range for the air transport you can have available.

Once you have a beachhead move some ARM and MNT there and kick Brits out of England. You don't need to many of them. If you had enough forces to conquer France you will surely have enough to deal with Bitish Islands garrisons.

 

[xsturmgewehrx]

My difficulty settings are normal/normal. To give some time references as well, I'll usually have France wrapped up by Nov '39. I understand weather plays a factor, but would waiting until mid '40 or later give Great Britain too much time to solidify defenses? (even though that sort of time frame was the historical?)

 

[CaptRobau]

My difficulty settings are normal/normal. To give some time references as well, I'll usually have France wrapped up by Nov '39. I understand weather plays a factor, but would waiting until mid '40 or later give Great Britain too much time to solidify defenses? (even though that sort of time frame was the historical?)

Britain is too busy building naval and air assets at this points. In 1940 it usually has ten units on Great Britain. The rest is in the colonies.

 

[xsturmgewehrx]

Britain is too busy building naval and air assets at this points. In 1940 it usually has ten units on Great Britain. The rest is in the colonies.

I've tried a few different landings using the methods mentioned with tough odds. Once on the beaches I was facing superstacks. I could hardly blitz around which was my initial hope to cut off London. One detail I left out, though I feel now may be relevant is when I was trying to invade I had not brought Italy into the Axis (yet). Would this easily explain why the UK was so heavily garrisoned?

I may try and bring Italy in, rage around in North Africa and see if I can answer this question myself. I also apologize for not saying so yet, but thanks guys for your insights.

 

[unmerged(50895)]

I may try and bring Italy in, rage around in North Africa and see if I can answer this question myself. I also apologize for not saying so yet, but thanks guys for your insights.

Unfortunately Italy doesn't do anything in North Africa; they just sit there. I have not military controlled them or send them any help. The Italy AI does nothing...

 

[xsturmgewehrx]

Unfortunately Italy doesn't do anything in North Africa

Agreed! I always military control them and send some crack units their way by the time they join the Axis.

 

[am300307]

Unfortunately Italy doesn't do anything in North Africa; they just sit there. I have not military controlled them or send them any help. The Italy AI does nothing...

Well why would Italy rape Africa when IRL they got kicked out?

Axis already gets help by winning in China which isnt very historical

 

[PB-DK]

i usually go for para drops in Dover and Norwich with small (2-3) divisions naval landings in support (not para in support of landings). My base air landing force is usually 3 para divisions with artillery attached, 1 AT if there is a lot of armor in London. in general i find that my CAS are sufficient to whack any British attempts to attack the landings unless they have their entire army in UK in which case it could be good to turn your land forces loose on yugo and the Balkans or the scandinavian countries to draw their attention away from UK, tasks that can be solved without use of all air units

 

[unmerged(52751)]

given the AI's total failure to garrison UK beaches, and the RN's complete inability to destroy a landing force or the Kriegsmarine with its OVERWHELMING superiority, any landing conducted by the player is gamey in the extreme!

I would think that if a German invasion force entered the channel every possible RN unit would be sent against it, except for those taking the government to Canada... However, the UK AI barely deploys the RN, usually retreating after insignificant losses.

You should at least mod or use a mod that locks UK units on the beaches, and you may as well give the UK at least lvl 5 beach forts. I've enjoyed the Third Reich mod so far for its ability to give the UK free locked units on the coast and in Suez/Gibraltar (and free resources to support them) :

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473808

edit : just wanted to point out that historically, an invasion of England was feasible because the UK army was basically destroyed at Dunkirk. However, in AoD, as the UK never fields a BEF, the army should still be in the UK... or maybe the tendency of the AI to send its army overseas is to make up for the lack of a BEF/Dunkirk?