Soldiers of other cultures

[Soulitaire]

Playing as Russia I also have the chance to recruit soldiers of some minorities... such as the circassians from the caucasus area for example. Those troops are called 'native' troops unlike the other 'regular' ones... although the stats remain the same.

Another observation was that my Manchu soldiers are NOT native, but also 'regular' troops (again with the same stats as Russian soldiers of the same type).

my questions:
1) Besides the obvious benefit of having the minorities do the soldiering (and dying), is there an advantage in having troops stationed in their home culture provinces? Is there any difference at all?

2) Are the labels 'native' and 'regular' purely cosmetic? does it have something to do with question 1?

3) Why does Paradox strike down my fully staffed Steel factory (level 6) in my one-factory state instead of reducing some vodka distillery in a diversified state? *grumble* ;oP

 

[unmerged(25206)]

Sorry i cant answer your questions, but I have one of my own. If I recruit loads of soldiers from a minority and then get them all killed, then repeat the process, will i slowly wittle down that minorities population? This is merely curiosity, I am not trying to indicate that genocide is morally acceptable.

 

[Darkrenown]

I suppose you could. Counter question: Why do you ask so many genocide questions? If you don't want a minority in your game then edit them out.

 

[Soulitaire]

Your soldier population does whittle away if your units are taking a beating (simple observation, not actual thorough testing).

What's wrong with minorities? if they only work half as efficiently in my factories... make AN ARMY and USE THEM.


(oh and you're only talking about erasing game POPulations... let's not get too politically sensitive and correct here... I'd hate to have to add or read a two-paragraph disclaimer with every post)

 

[Darkrenown]

Another observation was that my Manchu soldiers are NOT native, but also 'regular' troops (again with the same stats as Russian soldiers of the same type).

Hmm, I've always found native troops to have lower relibility and org than regulars, are you sure they were the same in every stat?

1. Well there is the disadvantage of all troops of that nationality defecting if that area revolts enough to form it's own country. Can't think of an advantage though.

2. Native should = slighty less good regulars from colonies.

3. That event should only reduce the factory by one level Maybe it'll be fixed in 1.03.

 

[Soulitaire]

Hmm, I've always found native troops to have lower relibility and org than regulars, are you sure they were the same in every stat?

1. Well there is the disadvantage of all troops of that nationality defecting if that area revolts enough to form it's own country. Can't think of an advantage though.

2. Native should = slighty less good regulars from colonies.

3. That event should only reduce the factory by one level Maybe it'll be fixed in 1.03.

Hmmm.. reliability, eh? Every now and then some Chinese irregulars defect to me. I found that their home province is within Mother Russia's fine green bosom... (scratch that thought) ... that their home province is MINE!

Not that this will make a dent into China's millions of irregulars. ;o)

 

[unmerged(17248)]

1. Well there is the disadvantage of all troops of that nationality defecting if that area revolts enough to form it's own country. Can't think of an advantage though.

I've been wondering about this myself - that's why I'll station different colonial troops in a different minority colony. For example Bulgarians in an African colony. My question about defecting is: If Bulgaria declares independence and my colonial Bulgarian troops defect, will they take over my colony? If anyone knows what would happen, I'd appreciate it. Thank you

If so, I may have to change my plans for world domination

Jono

 

[Soulitaire]

I've been wondering about this myself - that's why I'll station different colonial troops in a different minority colony. For example Bulgarians in an African colony.

...
Jono

Yikes... that would mean TONS of army micromanagement! Especially because the unit nationality is not shown in the corps overview but inside the stats of each unit.

 

[Darkrenown]

My question about defecting is: If Bulgaria declares independence and my colonial Bulgarian troops defect, will they take over my colony?

If they defect they will start taking over your colony, nations that break from you start at war with you.

 

[unmerged(20006)]

The only difference between "Native" and "Regular" troops is ORG and Supply Cost.

Its a HUGE diff in supply cost. Not sure of the amount but I believe its like 5 to 1 in upkeep cost.

I use Native troops all the time. Especially when playing low manpower countries. Tunis is my favorite place to annex. Ton's of Arab manpower for my French Armies.

 

[Darkrenown]

Yikes... that would mean TONS of army micromanagement!

Nah, just delopy them to an area and remember not to swap them about.

 

[unmerged(25206)]

(oh and you're only talking about erasing game POPulations... let's not get too politically sensitive and correct here... I'd hate to have to add or read a two-paragraph disclaimer with every post)

I'm just worried about being banned again

 

[unmerged(25206)]

I suppose you could. Counter question: Why do you ask so many genocide questions? If you don't want a minority in your game then edit them out.

Its not that I dont want a certain minority in my games, I was just curious if ingame genocide was possible, nothing to do with any personel preference.

 

[unmerged(3921)]

Troops are rated NATIVE if they come from a colony and not a state.
Troops are rated REGULAR if they come from a state.

Its as simple as that.

As yes, you are heavily incentivized to raise all of your troops from minority POPs in provinces that you have granted statehood to. All my divisions are raised this way.

 

[Soulitaire]

I checked... comparing some old Manchu unit (inf w/artillery) with a new (after granting statehood) Manchu unit of the same type.

Upkeep of a native unit is 10x less. 25.8 vs 258 in this case
Organization is 25 points lower on a native unit. 74 vs 39 in my sample.

That organization penalty can hurt... but it'll hurt more early in the game (if it's absolute and not relative), when max org is low already.

 

[unmerged(12680)]

I checked... comparing some old Manchu unit (inf w/artillery) with a new (after granting statehood) Manchu unit of the same type.

Upkeep of a native unit is 10x less. 25.8 vs 258 in this case
Organization is 25 points lower on a native unit. 74 vs 39 in my sample.

That organization penalty can hurt... but it'll hurt more early in the game (if it's absolute and not relative), when max org is low already.

And if you play a clauswitzean nation like Prussia (which has 100+ org at the end of the game) paying a tenth of the support cost for those expensive artillery divisions sure is worth it! Back to the African Armies of 1.01 it is! :rofl:

 

[Dark Knight]

Its not that I dont want a certain minority in my games, I was just curious if ingame genocide was possible, nothing to do with any personel preference.

Try reading the stickied threads before posting.

 

[unmerged(18330)]

When I become uber-rich, I just use tons of African regular troops (from states formed by immigration) to beat down my enemies

 

[NobillyT]

...Mother Russia's fine green bosom...

Sounds like Mother Russia needs to take a shower! :rofl:

 

[Fawr]

As yes, you are heavily incentivized to raise all of your troops from minority POPs in provinces that you have granted statehood to. All my divisions are raised this way.

I find that the real cost of troops isn't the maintainance, its the manpower and starting materials (guns/canned food/wine/cash...) you have to pay. Since you pay as much to raise a native/regular troop you will get a better army for your initial spending if you use regulars. Regulars are also a better if you are concerned about manpower (although colonial manpower can be easier to raise).

When I'm at war I will only raise regular troops, and convert colonial POPs to provide reinforcements. I find when at war I can never raise enough troops (either the guns or the $ are in short supply).