SoI makes me wary of the future CK2 has in store

[Fraemi]

Spoiler

This is what happens if your ruler becomes muslim from a christian family. Just so that you don't work around not buying your 10$ DLC, dear consumer.
What if your liege is muslim and demands conversion? Why, your game is over because either option would end up with you being ruined, either by what is included in the screenshot or by your liege revoking your lands, imprisoning you and putting a muslim in your place.

Look at the defeat screen. It is the message that the player receives. Never before have I seen such a developer put into their game such a blatant message of "I'm taking my ball and going home." Never before have I seen a "No, you're not allowed to do that in MY game, you're getting a game over" screen from, at least what I thought was, an upstanding developer.
There is something fundamentally wrong with the message "You have become a Muslim and are therefore no longer allowed to play."

Currently there is also a bug that people with DLC can't play with those that don't own it. Intentional or not, people have bought the DLC just for MP lately. This is far too coincidental to be completely dismissed, just want to point this out. I'd certainly buy the DLC if I had to attend an MP session, just like many others have had to.

Something that also comes along with this patch is absolute muslim dominance. There are some quite significant differences in CB use. If you are muslim and have 500 piety, you can invade kingdoms which means you can obtain all titles under it. This is quite overpowered since 500 piety is easily attained by smaller holy wars for duchies. In 5 observant games I've run from 1066, Byzantium lost 4 times and the Fatimids had beaten HRE in wars. Iberia was just hopeless, muslims overran it every time by 1090~.
Something I noticed is that the army pathfinding is still plain bad, Byzantium and Seljuks lost more troops to attrition in the 1066 scenario than to one another. Sometimes troops just got stuck in a lapse of travelling between 2 provinces.


You cannot play Zoroastrian or anything but Christian anymore with the latest patch. Nor can you play Muslim unless you've got SoI.
No more Zoroastrians. No more Norse. All of which was possible by simple edits previously, if Paradox hadn't planned SoI, Pagan, ERE (?) expansions I'm sure that ambitious fan projects for these settings would have been started, possibly of superior quality since that is a running trend for paradox game modifications.
I don't see why this had to be taken out, apart from allowing Paradox to cash in for SoI.

I'm personally also disappointed with how Mali region looks. I think that the "All the Way to Timbuktu" mod made the region far more interesting, especially for those of us who hate ugly borders.

I love Paradox but you have to be critical of things you like.

 

[s1234567890m]

Nor can you play Muslim unless you've got SoI.

Incorrect

if Paradox hadn't planned SoI, Pagan, ERE (?) expansions I'm sure that ambitious fan projects for these settings would have been started, possibly of superior quality since that is a running trend for paradox game modifications.

Im curious how they would have done it without changing the engine

 

[DirkHardpeck]

Spoiler

This is what happens if your ruler becomes muslim from a christian family. Just so that you don't work around not buying your 10$ DLC, dear consumer.
What if your liege is muslim and demands conversion? Why, your game is over because either option would end up with you being ruined, either by what is included in the screenshot or by your liege revoking your lands, imprisoning you and putting a muslim in your place.

Look at the defeat screen. It is the message that the player receives. Never before have I seen such a developer put into their game such a blatant message of "I'm taking my ball and going home." Never before have I seen a "No, you're not allowed to do that in MY game, you're getting a game over" screen from, at least what I thought was, an upstanding developer.
There is something fundamentally wrong with the message "You have become a Muslim and are therefore no longer allowed to play."

Currently there is also a bug that people with DLC can't play with those that don't own it. Intentional or not, people have bought the DLC just for MP lately. This is far too coincidental to be completely dismissed, just want to point this out. I'd certainly buy the DLC if I had to attend an MP session, just like many others have had to.

Something that also comes along with this patch is absolute muslim dominance. There are some quite significant differences in CB use. If you are muslim and have 500 piety, you can invade kingdoms which means you can obtain all titles under it. This is quite overpowered since 500 piety is easily attained by smaller holy wars for duchies. In 5 observant games I've run from 1066, Byzantium lost 4 times and the Fatimids had beaten HRE in wars. Iberia was just hopeless, muslims overran it every time by 1090~.
Something I noticed is that the army pathfinding is still plain bad, Byzantium and Seljuks lost more troops to attrition in the 1066 scenario than to one another. Sometimes troops just got stuck in a lapse of travelling between 2 provinces.


You cannot play Zoroastrian or anything but Christian anymore with the latest patch. Nor can you play Muslim unless you've got SoI.
No more Zoroastrians. No more Norse. All of which was possible by simple edits previously, if Paradox hadn't planned SoI, Pagan, ERE (?) expansions I'm sure that ambitious fan projects for these settings would have been started, possibly of superior quality since that is a running trend for paradox game modifications.
I don't see why this had to be taken out, apart from allowing Paradox to cash in for SoI.

I'm personally also disappointed with how Mali region looks. I think that the "All the Way to Timbuktu" mod made the region far more interesting, especially for those of us who hate ugly borders.

I love Paradox but you have to be critical of things you like.

There is something fundamentally wrong with that picture.
One of the big appeals of the Paradox games was that you COULD do anything, without restriction.
Do you want to conquer the world as a westernized Khan horde in EU3? You could do it.
You want to conquer Africa and South America as a modernizing Zulu nation in Victoria? Damn right you could do that.
You want to be a funny guy and convert your Frenchman to the light of Islam in CK2? NO, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED. YOU HAVE TO PLAY OUR WAY.

This is, essentially, what Paradox is currently saying with this screen capture. "You either play our way this time, or you don't play at all." This is a complete reversal of Paradox's old stance on freedom of gameplay.

What the true kicker is, however, this is a recent change to the game. People are now, after almost a year, loading up a savefile and being greeted with the message "Buy the DLC, or get out." Some might say, “But you can edit a Muslim faction to be just like the old one!” The problem remains that it's a reversal of what Paradox stands for. Paradox has always stood for being able to do anything in your game, no matter how absurd it is. You could do anything, without mods, and have fun with it. You were allowed, as Johan Andersson would say, “to create believable worlds”

 

[unmerged(417112)]

Spoiler

you have become a muslim and therefore no longer allowed to continue playing.

Spoiler

dats racis

 

[lullelulle]

I gotta say, if there's something that scares me in the current video game industry it's companies charging for things that would've been included in the original games price a few years ago. I've been fairly fine with Paradox's expansion strategy, although it's not without its problems (Players without expansions not receiving updates which leads to them having to deal with major bugs).

This however is different, I bought Ck2 via Steam which means that the new update came automatically. I know have a lot of gameplay in a game that I've bought that I can't access because I didn't buy the DLC. This is shameful. I'm more than fine with small visual DLCs, I am also fine with larger expansions that you download once you've bought them.

Problem here is that this is between those two. It's gameplay oriented without being a big expansion, at the same time I'm pretty much forced to update (I think I can turn off steam auto updater, but it's too late for that now, right?) and I'm left with the new DLC but with a "Please buy our DLC if you want to play" if I ever decide to go Muslim for fun. This is bad, unacceptable and makes me lose a lot of respect for Paradox as a company.

 

[Faeelin]

You guys lost respect because you can't play a faction you were told you weren't gonna be able to play when teh game was released?

 

[s1234567890m]

I gotta say, if there's something that scares me in the current video game industry it's companies charging for things that would've been included in the original games price a few years ago. I've been fairly fine with Paradox's expansion strategy, although it's not without its problems (Players without expansions not receiving updates which leads to them having to deal with major bugs).

On this note were muslims actually 'playable/selectable' in the original?

 

[bad_username]

I agree with Fraemi, even if some of us will find it difficult to hear. The DLC system in the industry is very easily manipulated, and holding back content for monetary gain is one means of manipulation. Now don't get me wrong, I have had a lot of fun with CK2 and i've tolerated the buggy SOI and 1.6 release, but it's very important PDox gets understands that many in the community have criticism of their recent actions.

 

[lullelulle]

On this note were muslims actually 'playable/selectable' in the original?

Yes they were, as a Christian you could convert to Islam.

 

[Faeelin]

On this note were muslims actually 'playable/selectable' in the original?

Not without editing.

 

[KrakenHeart]

I hate the $2 DLC crap. At least include sprites and songs in the expansion I just paid $10 for.

 

[Kannon]

The picture is absurd, and if it's true, then things are really really bad.

Somebody has taken some hints from EA.
Might as well restrict conversion of religion for all characters.
And sell it as a separate "conversion pack".

 

[s1234567890m]

Not without editing.

So its the same as now wonderful

 

[lullelulle]

So its the same as now wonderful

Did you purposefully ignore my post?

It's NOT the same because if you convert as a Christian you get a "Buy DLC to keep playing". Or even if you load an old save were you played as a converted Christian.

This is removing a part of the game we already had, and then forcing us to pay for it. It's shameful and I don't see how you could defend it.

Imagine buying a car with a nice radio, and after a few months the seller would come up to you, install a better radio, while destroying the old one and then saying that you have to pay to use the new radio.

 

[unmerged(417112)]

So its the same as now wonderful

So you disregard the other post that says you could convert to Islam? God damn, what a great poof.

 

[zedyue]

Spoiler

I love Paradox but you have to be critical of things you like.

I have to fundamentally agree with this. I worry this thread will be pushed to the wayside by people who are such fanatics about paradox that they don't want to hurt the developers feelings with a negative thread. Frankly I think people SHOULD voice concerns about the game or about paradox's business practices because it can give paradox an excuse to do better.

I fundamentally agree with the original intent of the thread too, personally I think that the muslim/pagan content should have been in the base game and then we wouldn't have this issue. I always approved of paradox only selling basic dlc (sprites) and full expansions (HttT and DW for eu3), but this muslim DLC feels like content cut from the game in order to sell.

 

[s1234567890m]

Incorrect



Im curious how they would have done it without changing the engine

Did you purposefully ignore my post?

It's NOT the same because if you convert as a Christian you get a "Buy DLC to keep playing". Or even if you load an old save were you played as a converted Christian.

This is removing a part of the game we already had, and then forcing us to pay for it. It's shameful and I don't see how you could defend it.

Imagine buying a car with a nice radio, and after a few months the seller would come up to you, install a better radio, while destroying the old one and then saying that you have to pay to use the new radio.

Did you read mine?

 

[bad_username]

The picture is absurd, and if it's true, then things are really really bad.

You think someone would fake this to make paradox look bad? Some of us may be criticising, but we're not out to get Paradox. We're doing this because we really enjoy the games and we're worried by something like this.

 

[Faeelin]

I fundamentally agree with this thread too, personally I think that the muslim/pagan content should have been in the base game and then we wouldn't have this issue. I always approved of paradox only selling basic dlc (sprites) and full expansions (HttT and DW for eu3), but this muslim DLC feels like content cut from the game in order to sell.

Because in CK1 you could play Muslims and you couldn't in the CK2 base release?

 

[Wallienator]

Not so much content in 1 dlc man, we need to split it up, into 1 dlc from christian to Sunni, 1 for Sunni Christian, 1 Christian Shia and 1 Shia Christian.