SoI less complex?

[westcoastbias]

So it seems since daughters are useless in SoI, that it is a less complex version of CKII. I mean, all I ever do is declare war on my neighbors using the conquest CB. I dont even care where I marry my daughters off to since any alliance I get doesnt ever want to help me in war. Similarly, I dont care as much about my sons wifes since I know they wont inherit anything. Its just CB and conquest over and over.

Am I missing something?

 

[neondt]

Having a first wife with high stewardship helps. I find that my biggest problem playing as a Muslim is managing my demense size. Also, more wives mean more alliances for muslims. They aren't always useful, but things can go bad if they're used against you. So keeping good relations with other Muslim rulers can be important.

 

[brxbrx]

Women are downgraded, but I think it's historically accurate here. I don't believe there have every been women rulers or matrilineal marriages in Islam. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Kyoumen]

Women are downgraded, but I think it's historically accurate here. I don't believe there have every been women rulers or matrilineal marriages in Islam. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What, Benazhir Bhutto, Megawati Sukarnoputri, Roza Otunbayeva etc. don't count?

Well, all discussion about the historical role of women in Islam aside (though it's worth noting Yemen actually has a long tradition of significant and powerful female leaders, including Arwa al-Sulayhi, who ruled Yemen from 1101-1138 and thus ought to be in the game), daughters are very useful not just for alliances, but for the fact they will often provide you with claims to press. I've gotten several claims at the Sunni and Shiite Caliphates in my Mali game, though obviously I'm a little geographically distant to seriously consider using them.

 

[westcoastbias]

Yeah I have been playing out of southern spain and had some claims in the middle east I could press, but that seems too much trouble.

Im not arguing about the historical significance of women, just that SoI seems to have made it less complex by going that route.

Am I missing something with alliances? I have 8 or so it seems, but when I go to war none join me. I dont recall there being a diplomatic option to have them join you and if thats true, how do they join you? Randomly? Does rank matter?

 

[Beladriel]

Well, I've seen both Fatimids and some Syrian dynasty come to my help due to many marriages I made with them, so I wouldn't say it is useless.

 

[Varam]

Yeah I have been playing out of southern spain and had some claims in the middle east I could press, but that seems too much trouble.

Im not arguing about the historical significance of women, just that SoI seems to have made it less complex by going that route.

Am I missing something with alliances? I have 8 or so it seems, but when I go to war none join me. I dont recall there being a diplomatic option to have them join you and if thats true, how do they join you? Randomly? Does rank matter?

You have to call them to join you in your war on their diplomatic screen. If you have an ally you can call in, there should have a notifier at the top of the screen, unless you've turned those off.

Not all allies are necessarily actually available to join you, though. For example, you can't call on an ally that's a vassal to someone in another realm.

 

[Dragnar]

It's true that the marriage game is less complex for muslims. The decadence game is quite a bit more fleshed out for them, though, so I don't see how the whole game just got simpler.
If you enjoy marriage politics so much that not having them feels shallow, you can always play christian rulers. That's what different options are for. Play the one you enjoy the most.

 

[westcoastbias]

Not all allies are necessarily actually available to join you, though. For example, you can't call on an ally that's a vassal to someone in another realm.

See this I did not know. That explains a lot. So unless an ally is independent you wont get the dialog inviting them to war? So is there any reason to have those allys that are not independent?

 

[MrLebanon]

I think women should have the option to leader in SoI.... but with severe restrictions as it did not happen often in history due to general arab culture

but hey, the Fatimid dynasty is named after a women whom is to this day and ideal leader for Muslim men and women worldwide!

 

[Arko]

Women are downgraded, but I think it's historically accurate here. I don't believe there have every been women rulers or matrilineal marriages in Islam. Correct me if I'm wrong.

as CK is also about alternate history, it would be nice to have more possibilities. like cognatic or matrilinear stuff IMHO.

 

[n000b]

Women have weak claims your sons can inherit. And since you can have alot of wifes you can end up having alot of weak claims, interresting way of expanding imo.

 

[grumphie]

See this I did not know. That explains a lot. So unless an ally is independent you wont get the dialog inviting them to war? So is there any reason to have those allys that are not independent?

you can call in allies from your own liege as well though. there is actually SOME benefit in it, but generally not millitary wise.

 

[westcoastbias]

Women have weak claims your sons can inherit. And since you can have alot of wifes you can end up having alot of weak claims, interresting way of expanding imo.

I havent really played around with the weak claim system, but this seems like a good way of expanding your dynasty at least, since pushing 2nd and 3rd wives claims will generally not benefit your character.

 

[Kyoumen]

Well, it would be nice if it wasn't completely impossible for women to be rulers in Islamic countries in the game, considering there were multiple actual female Islamic rulers in the game timeline. Heck, there was two significant female rulers at once in the 1210s (Queen Ahmadilidyn in Maragah, northwestern Persia, and Salbak Turhan, the last queen of the Qara Khitai Khanate, which isn't quite on the CK map but is relevant to someone who soon will be inasmuch as she had the misfortune to be holding Samarkand when Genghis Khan came knocking).

Female Muslim rulers in this time period were only slightly less common than Christian ones, really (Maat Layla ruled one of the Islamic statelets bordering Ethiopia, the fairly awesome Raziyya al-Din personally rode elephants into battle as she ruled the Mamluk Sultanate of Dehli for four years, Padshah Hatun and her hilarious self-appointed nickname killed off several of her relatives and seized control of some of the crumbling Ilkhanate in Iran, and so on and so forth).

Actually, if anything, they might do like cognatic and tie the possibility of female inheritance to culture. Women inheritance (and combat training) happened relatively often in the steppe tribes (Turks, Mamluks, Cumans, etc.) and Persia, but would have been a much harder sell in much of the Arabian peninsula and North Africa (that still leaves Arwa al-Salayhi and her amazingly lengthy rule of Yemen, though - peculiarly, the family is in the game but just changes names to a different dynasty and she never appears as a character at all despite her 37-year tenure). It probably wouldn't be wholly unfair to female Muslim rulers to get bigger negative opinion modifiers from vassals than Christian ones do - or maybe just from Zealous ones?

 

[n000b]

I havent really played around with the weak claim system, but this seems like a good way of expanding your dynasty at least, since pushing 2nd and 3rd wives claims will generally not benefit your character.

Weak claims can be inherited you know, so when your wife die (maybe she fell down some stairs) you can press your sons claim, and since he is of your dynasty he will be a vassal of you.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

There are female Islamic rulers in the game as regents. Its just pretty easy to overlook. I've had at least two reasonably long reigning dowager Sultanas.

 

[Mikebloke]

Yeah, I've seen a few female regents already. It would be nice though if Women were capable of leadership in some circumstances.

Playing Muslims is very much a matter of where they are located, I'm trying a West African game right now, and bordering only one country most of the time means it is a bit hack and slash.

I'm wondering if piety is too easy to gain too, most things for Muslims in SoI revolve around piety, and there is plenty of ways of getting it.

 

[ShoGuL]

It seems to happen quite often to me when I am playing an under-age muslim, that my mother (or possibly another of my dads wives) 'uses her considerable influence at court to make herself regent'. Quite a nice little flavour event

 

[KPJ]

Hey, you know what's a neat use I just figured out (and kind of exploited) today?

If you marry your (Same religion, family, same culture, or high relations) women to somebody you're plotting to kill (different religion, unattractive traits, different culture, or otherwise unpleasant to this woman) they're almost guaranteed to have a few plot points and join your plot.

I really wanted the Fatimid caliph dead, so I could declare a fresh war (playing a Tunis-based Africa-Sicily) and gain more of Egypt. The Sunni women from my court were unhappy enough with their new outpost to act as my little amateur Hashshashin