Society of ethical players

[Slargos]

Stockholm is very much in tropical climate seen from here. They didn't even have snow there!

Yes, I was on a holiday there. But it is good I live in a free country and not in a puritanistic hole like Ryo does

Hear hear.

It's always amused me how people can whine about drinking early in the day.
It's the same drink, and it's the same effect. What difference does it make when you drink it?


Nothing like being able to have a cold one in the middle of the day since you don't have to work.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Now, as we know there are witch-hunters and zealots around who can be assumed to dig up information on sent merchants or colonists, what if a player is found to break the rule(s) anyway? Is it fitting that he says sorry (I did it because "I didn't know/remember it is not ok" or "That's a bloody stupid rule anyway" or "Why are you guys always pecking on me?" or "The rule does not fit this situation") and then continues the game, or should such a player be booted? What if a sub does it? I think it is fair that people know what happens if they either use themselves or their sub uses such "heroic efforts" in a game they are not assumed to be used.

If a player is found to break the rules, he should be booted. Perhaps giving a final warning first won't hurt though...

Keep in mind that sending lag merchants do have a certain error level though, a misclick when you are in hurry is easily made.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

It's always amused me how people can whine about drinking early in the day.
It's the same drink, and it's the same effect. What difference does it make when you drink it?

Morning = coffee
Early evening = coffee
late evening = beer

Anything else is heresy

 

[Swuul]

Keep in mind that sending lag merchants do have a certain error level though, a misclick when you are in hurry is easily made.

Ah, you refer to the excuse of "the Lord of Loans"? It took quite some editing to clear those misclicks away

Having two traders available means you can click twice. Not three times, but twice. The number we search here, is two. Two is the number between one and three. Hee-hee, Monty Python's "Holy Grail", anyone?

 

[Swuul]

Morning = coffee
Early evening = coffee
late evening = beer

Anything else is heresy

Sure, when it is a workday. Then again, being on a holiday is of course an act of heresy in itself...

 

[Slargos]

Now, as we know there are witch-hunters and zealots around who can be assumed to dig up information on sent merchants or colonists, what if a player is found to break the rule(s) anyway? .

I can only speak for myself as GM in this.

I am a very trusting person. I expect rules to be followed. Consistently, when that trust is broken not by mistake but by design, I get pretty píssed off. Hence, an immediate booting is appropriate for me. If that means the game cannot continue because the players don't think this behaviour is correct, well then I am GMing the wrong group of people, simply put.

No one's perfect. I've broken rules myself, in the heat of the moment. If you break a rule by mistake, I don't think anyone is going to be that upset. If you break rules consistently when you know better, you are likely the kind of player I have no great wish for playing with.

Of course, it's not always easy to tell wether it was by mistake or not. Some slack may be needed until a certain player consistently shows himself to be untrustworthy...

 

[Hive]

Ah, you refer to the excuse of "the Lord of Loans"? It took quite some editing to clear those misclicks away

My "excuse" was that I had no idea that would happen. I was still pretty green back then.

 

[Swuul]

My "excuse" was that I had no idea that would happen. I was still pretty green back then.

Exactly. Just like I did send lag-merchants in Tsunami, I had no idea it would happen. And just as you don't take loans anymore, I don't send lag-merchants

 

[unmerged(17563)]

I only send lag merchants to my own Cots and then only to regain monopolies lost to ai merchants or to overly agressive trading from other human players

As a newbie GM I allow lag merchants on a limited basis

 

[Owen]

I only send lag merchants to my own Cots and then only to regain monopolies lost to ai merchants or to overly agressive trading from other human players

As a newbie GM I allow lag merchants on a limited basis

Hmm. What do you define as "a limited basis"? I don't see how there can be a middle-ground between allowing or banning lag merchants.

 

[unmerged(17563)]

Hmm. What do you define as "a limited basis"? I don't see how there can be a middle-ground between allowing or banning lag merchants.

Limited as I described my own use of lag merchants

 

[Owen]

Limited as I described my own use of lag merchants

Well, IMHO those rules (?) strike me as so poorly defined that there is little difference between that and allowing free rein to the other players, even if you are restrained yourself.

In my opinion, if other players are overly aggressive in CoTs with your current rules, it's most likely they are either using lag merchants to the full themselves, or you are using lag merchants to make up for the fact that they have better trading efficiency, more merchants per year, or other trading advantage.

 

[unmerged(334)]

" lag merchants" - what is that? Is that a new name for something I know or is that something new. plz explain....

 

[Swuul]

" lag merchants" - what is that? Is that a new name for something I know or is that something new. plz explain....

In multiplay there is almost always a short (or sometimes longer) lag-time between the host and the players. All actions you do on your computer go to the host computer and from there on to everybody else.

Because of the lagtime (which can be only a fraction of second, sometimes longer) between your computer and the host computer, you will be able to send extra merchants by clicking fast on the Send Merchant button. The information goes to the host, which then sends back the info to deduct a merchant from you -> if you've been clicking fast enough you've been able to send one or more merchants instead of just one.

Lag can be used for other things too. Some beneficial for the player, some not so beneficial. Hive (who was at the time rather new with large MP's) was formerly know as the Lord of Loan, he succeeded (accidently, apparently, altough it is beyond me how somebody can click the Take Loan button 28 times accidently )to click the Take Loan button 28 times during a Tsunami II session -> he got 14000d but also a bankrupt soon after.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Lag can be used for other things too. Some beneficial for the player, some not so beneficial. Hive (who was at the time rather new with large MP's) was formerly know as the Lord of Loan, he succeeded (accidently, apparently, altough it is beyond me how somebody can click the Take Loan button 28 times accidently )to click the Take Loan button 28 times during a Tsunami II session -> he got 14000d but also a bankrupt soon after.

I'm fairly sure it wasn't accidently, it just took ages before the command was processed by the engine. Hence, that's why newbies often keep clicking until they finally get a result...

 

[unmerged(334)]

oh thx for explonation...14000d? I have to try that some time. take a lot of cash build army, conquer some provs and then go bunkrupt.

 

[Swuul]

oh thx for explonation...14000d? I have to try that some time. take a lot of cash build army, conquer some provs and then go bunkrupt.

Heh, Johan (who also played in that game) gave Hive the title "Lord of Loan" and fixed the thing with loans. Unfortunately the other lag-bugs/exploits/cheats still exist

 

[BiB]

I xure as hell didn't allow any lagmerchanting when I was GM.

Of course it is a cheat. It is a listed bug, sadly one Johan couldn't get fixed, but a bug nevertheless. The rule is that you are only allowed to send merchants you actually have. IF you can send more it is a bug. So, if you send them, you are exploiting a bug to your advantage. And unless everyone does it (including the ai) it gives you an unfair advantage over your competitors which makes it cheating.

 

[unmerged(5161)]

Solution to Lag-Merchants:

Step 1: Make rule against lag merchants
Step 2: Play game
Step 3: Find Lag-Merchant offender by looking at save file
Step 4: Give offender 1 loan per lag merchant during game session.

Draconian Solutions! YOU CAN DO IT!

 

[PJL]

Solution to Lag-Merchants:

Step 1: Make rule against lag merchants
Step 2: Play game
Step 3: Find Lag-Merchant offender by looking at save file
Step 4: Give offender 1 loan per lag merchant during game session.

Draconian Solutions! YOU CAN DO IT!

Better solution for 4 would be to change DP setting by the no. of lag merchants per year (especially if it a persistant offender). So if someone was found to be sending 5 lag merchants a year, then the penalty would be 5 DP clicks towards mercantalism. If they are already at near max mercantalism, then use excess DP sliders towards aristocracy. Then do the same again towards decentralisation if still excess DP clicks available.