Social Unrest Should be a thing.

[yellownes]

I most certanly belive that in HOI4 S.U. should be a thing.
It should be generated by switching between economy laws, being in war for too long, starting multiple wars in a short span of time,getting bombed to oblivion.
It should influence how much POP % you can draft, outputs of the factories etc.
Should it rise too high minority pol. parties could execute coups etc.
It would add some level of complexity that would not skyrocket the game's learning curve.

PS: Pol. party sub parties would be a nice thing too .

Have fun my dears!

 

[Comrade110]

What country did stop waging war because of social unrest in this time period ?

 

[Pro_Consul]

An interesting thought, but I disagree. For starters, conscription is not exactly a voluntary thing...sorta the opposite. War exhaustion was also not a thing in WWII - nobody cut short their participation in the war because the people were tired of being at war. Being bombed seems only to have stiffened people's resolve, not weakened it: to wit the UK during the Battle of Britain and Germany throughout the Allied strategic bombing campaigns. I am not aware of any country that, after it was already fully at war, had a coup topple the government in power during WWII. And for sure starting too many wars too quickly only had one historical example, i.e. Germany, and that had exactly the opposite effect, increasing popular support not decreasing it.

In short, history argues against this entire idea...in the WWII context. It would be a reasonable proposition for Vicky or maybe EU, however.

 

[yellownes]

What country did stop waging war because of social unrest in this time period ?

I do belive HOI4 isnt a good representation of history (Pic to prove.)

And a handful of countries had a rather ,,Please end this war already" mindset around 1940's. (For example UK.)

 

[safe-keeper]

What country did stop waging war because of social unrest in this time period ?

Good question. France's general attitude of defeatism could qualify here, but this is simulated by low national unity.

 

[hkrommel]

What country did stop waging war because of social unrest in this time period ?

Italy.

nobody cut short their participation in the war because the people were tired of being at war. Being bombed seems only to have stiffened people's resolve, not weakened it

Again, Italy.

On 19 July, an Allied air raid on Rome destroyed both military and collateral civil installations. With these two events, popular support for the war diminished in Italy.[82]

On 25 July, the Grand Council of Fascism voted to limit the power of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini and handed control of the Italian armed forces over to King Victor Emmanuel III. The next day Mussolini met with the King, was dismissed as prime minister, and was then imprisoned. A new Italian government, led by General Pietro Badoglio and Victor Emmanuel III, took over in Italy. Although they publicly declared that they would keep fighting alongside the Germans, the new Italian government began secret negotiations with the Allies to come over to the Allied side.[83] On 3 September, a secret armistice was signed with the Allies at Fairfield Camp in Sicily. The armistice was publicly announced on 8 September. By then, the Allies were on the Italian mainland.

 

[Opanashc]

Italy.

It was a coup in game terms. "Pro-democratic" forces started a rebellion, taking over southern Italy, armed forces dissolved and had to be rebuilt anew.

 

[hkrommel]

It was a coup in game terms. "Pro-democratic" forces started a rebellion, taking over southern Italy, armed forces dissolved and had to be rebuilt anew.

I mean the coup only happened because public support dropped, which was the point being made. I would add that this coup would not have been possible if the population was still in favor of the war, which it wasn't due to bombing, invasion, etc. Coups fail when the population is against them. Either way I was mostly responding to this:

I am not aware of any country that, after it was already fully at war, had a coup topple the government in power during WWII

I would also point out (in general, not to you specifically) that just because it was a relatively isolated instance where public support dropping led to a nation's surrender in WWII doesn't mean it was farfetched in the slightest. In WWI Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary all succumbed to lack of public support for the war (in Russia it was a bit more complicated but it was still basically unrest).

 

[Opanashc]

Either way I was mostly responding to this:

Whoops, I misunderstood.
In that case - Romania had a coup, which ousted Antonesku, and had Romania swap sides.

I would also point out (in general, not to you specifically) that just because it was a relatively isolated instance where public support dropping led to a nation's surrender in WWII doesn't mean it was farfetched in the slightest. In WWI Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary all succumbed to lack of public support for the war (in Russia it was a bit more complicated but it was still basically unrest).

In WW2, Germany remembered how their surrender in WW1 ended up. Hitler remembered it too, and kept the quality of life higher then it was during WW1, until quite late into the war.

 

[yellownes]

Whoops, I misunderstood.
In that case - Romania had a coup, which ousted Antonesku, and had Romania swap sides.

Switching sides should be a thing aswell.

 

[Comrade110]

Italy.

It wasnt because half of the country was occupied or anything right ? Yea.....

That is represented by lower Italian unity + most of the points are Rome +south.

 

[Faulty]

What country did stop waging war because of social unrest in this time period ?

Russia and Germany in WW1, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland in WW2

 

[Aodhan_]

If they where to add social unrest I think it should only be an issue if you lose to many battles and man power. But then again would social unrest be another anchor thrown around the already drowning AI? I personally think the AI has enough to deal with out giving it more chores.

 

[JerkyJerry]

It won't be added it will never be added. It has nothing what-so-ever to do with the framework and direction of the game. It is a non-starter. It will not add a single benefit to the game we play now.

 

[yellownes]

Well, it could add the so desired complexity to the game and would make the game less dull.
I just hope they expand the effect of the population in the game as a war is never fought by politicans, it is fought by their people.

 

[Opanashc]

Russia and Germany in WW1

We are talking 1936-48.

Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland in WW2

Bulgaria fought in WW2? I thought they just performed occupational duties...

 

[Faulty]

We are talking 1936-48.

Why?

 

[Opanashc]

Why?

Why we talking WW2, not WW1? Because that's the time period covered by the game.

 

[keynes2.0]

Russia and Germany in WW1, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland in WW2

Italy in particular is the interesting example because public opinion was a major reason for the coup and the Italian government was not a German puppet like in Romania and Bulgaria.

 

[Faulty]

Why we talking WW2, not WW1? Because that's the time period covered by the game.

Do you think the concept of social unrest changed over those 20 years?