So Xenophobic empires can't benefit from genetic engineering without a huge happiness hit

[Ariphaos]

Because you can never actually modify your 'founding species'.

This gets confirmed in Kailvin's run. After modifying his entire race (some odd 400+ pops), every single one is unhappy because they are no longer allowed to hold leadership positions - so he needs to research xeno leadership policies.

Of course, implementing that for a xenophobic empire would also make them unhappy.

Edit: Timestamped link - there are no pops of his founding species left.

 

[Incomptinence]

Maybe make them more unhappy on purpose so they revolt then you can rejoin as them. Well I would at least hope rebelions get one of their agitating pops as the founding species.

 

[Brownbeard]

Makes sense. One does not improve perfection. GMO taint must be eradicated.

 

[m4st3rm_]

This seems like an oversight. Paradox is pretty nice about patching after DLCs, so they'll probably get release issues pretty quickly too.

 

[Jerev]

The new species just counts as a new one and therefore needs alien leadership. But that is not xenophobe specific.
Or do the new aliens become unhappy because of their modified neighbours despite them having the same species?

 

[ParagonExile]

While this specific scenario is a bit derp, I agree that xenophobes should hate them.

People obsessed with purity probably wouldn't want people tampering with "perfection".

 

[Jerev]

Why should they be opposed to genetic modifactions which could fix their last flaws and make them obtain real perfection?
I mean not every xenophobe has to think of himself as the best organism ever evolved.

 

[Incomptinence]

Xenophobes don't necessarily think they are perfect and even if they did this is a problem for non fanatic xenophobes too.

 

[Brownbeard]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Enclave_Oil_Rig

NO MUTANTS ALLOWED!

 

[Ariphaos]

This seems like an oversight. Paradox is pretty nice about patching after DLCs, so they'll probably get release issues pretty quickly too.

Most straightforward situation would be for us to be able to choose a given species as our 'prime' species.

Thus policies that restrict things to your primary species after giving your race extra traits will still mean something.

 

[zyphial]

Just consider the mindset of real world xenophobes. There's enough hatred on this planet of other, 100% pure-bred humans to justify this quirk, and that's without the wild changes that can be brought about by genetic engineering. I'll use an ancient example to avoid ruffling any feathers - Rome was notoriously xenophobic, just "looking Gaulish" or even wearing pants could be a social issue. And that's even after pants-wearing, Gaulish regions were longstanding parts of the empire!

Problem I see is, while a xeno/genophobic society makes real world sense, what about people who want to sandbox a species that loves internal diversity but hates outsiders? That's a more "pure" version of xenophobism and probably a better fit for a sandbox.

 

[Ariphaos]

There are a lot of nuances that the current four-axis ethos system doesn't represent very well. That's kind of a given.

In this particular case, though, the people who would object no longer exist. Entire aspects of the game are no longer meaningful, such as restricting migration to 'primary species only'.

 

[Jerev]

Just consider the mindset of real world xenophobes. There's enough hatred on this planet of other, 100% pure-bred humans to justify this quirk, and that's without the wild changes that can be brought about by genetic engineering. I'll use an ancient example to avoid ruffling any feathers - Rome was notoriously xenophobic, just "looking Gaulish" or even wearing pants could be a social issue. And that's even after pants-wearing, Gaulish regions were longstanding parts of the empire!

Problem I see is, while a xeno/genophobic society makes real world sense, what about people who want to sandbox a species that loves internal diversity but hates outsiders? That's a more "pure" version of xenophobism and probably a better fit for a sandbox.

What you describe is inner species racism which in my opinion is not covered by xenophobes who dislike other species.
My guess is that even todays racist would adapt to humans against the rest.

Back to topic : if all citizens of your empire simultaniosly get modified they should not hate their neighbours or themselves.

 

[Abayonett]

What you describe is inner species racism which in my opinion is not covered by xenophobes who dislike other species.
My guess is that even todays racist would adapt to humans against the rest.

Back to topic : if all citizens of your empire simultaniosly get modified they should not hate their neighbours or themselves.

If the augmentation was not voluntary unhappiness makes sense.

 

[naisel]

If the augmentation was not voluntary unhappiness makes sense.

Not being able to hold leadership positions does not.

 

[Jerev]

If the augmentation was not voluntary unhappiness makes sense.

Thats true but if that was a game mechanic it would make genetic modification unwieldy.

 

[zyphial]

What you describe is inner species racism which in my opinion is not covered by xenophobes who dislike other species.
My guess is that even todays racist would adapt to humans against the rest.

It's up in the air IMHO. If you want to look at the mindsets that surround xenophobic thought, then it's all the same. But even the word xenophobe comes from describing ancient racist perspectives. Still, I do agree that a "pure" xenophobe - that is, outside species only - is probably better for the sandbox.

Back to topic : if all citizens of your empire simultaniosly get modified they should not hate their neighbours or themselves.

Can no other species take primacy in an empire? I mean, if another species takes up a vast majority of the total pops and leadership positions, is there any way to culture shift (for lack of a better, non-EU4 term)?

 

[Giacomo1405]

if you change all your pops into the new species... it's absurd that they are not considered the primary species of your empire

 

[Jerev]

Can no other species take primacy in an empire? I mean, if another species takes up a vast majority of the total pops and leadership positions, is there any way to culture shift (for lack of a better, non-EU4 term)?

Sadly no. Wiz said multiple times that you can not change your founder or prime species. Even if you purged them all and only have one other new race present.
Perhaps a later patch will fix this.

 

[Jastebro]

Engineered workers should work, not lead.

The interesting question is if the xenophobes dislikes variants of themselves because they're xenophobes, rather than the variants being unhappy because of limited rights.