So why is the AI committing suicide against the Great Khan?

[Henrik82]

A common scenario in my games: The Great Khan approaches my borders, and I realize that I haven't a chance of defeating him. So I throw myself on the floor in front of him, sobbing and begging for mercy until he accepts my as a vassal. Then I wait him out, laughing for myself, while watching him destroy all my enemies outside in the galaxy. The other empires always seem to prefer complete destruction against his massive armies, rather than accepting a pretty comfortable vassalage until he dies. The same logic also applies to fallen empires. Fighting against these behemoths are just stupid, so stupid that only our AI seems to have it as a standard choice.

Suggestion: shouldn't vassalage be something that is only offered after taking about 30% of our systems? Or should we use the general vassalage logic; that it only is possible to vassalage smaller empires, and that the Khan and fallen empires need to decimate us before offering us vassalage?

 

[klopkr]

All the ai empires in 2.2.5 are underpowered by the time the great khan appears. If they used normal logic they would all fold.

If the AI wasn’t broken then it would only take 3-4 empires working together to take the khan out.

 

[Dustman]

Khan is for human only. AI doesn't have chances against him. If you don't fight the Horde, nobody will compete. Khan fleets will fly into FE space as well. Their life is short in such case as well.

 

[Dorian Ertymexx]

Perhaps a bit OT question but… how/when do you get the Khan to appear? I am just looking for info on that part for achievements.

 

[Methone]

I believe the AI has a chance to surrender every time the Khan takes a planet of theirs, increasing each time. But it's only a chance.

Also, I've seen an AI kill the Great Khan once. My erudite explorers, on Grand Admiral, absolutely demolished the pig-Khan when she spawned on their borders, and it was a really early Khan. The marauders managed to gain a single system by the time the Khan died.

 

[Methone]

Perhaps a bit OT question but… how/when do you get the Khan to appear? I am just looking for info on that part for achievements.

It's random. Destroying a marauder outpost has a 5% chance to trigger the Khan, and it has a chance to occur at any time once the midgame starts. Looking at the code, I believe the Khan also stops trying to spawn once the Endgame year passes. The khan might spawn immediately. They might wait until the year 2399. They might never spawn at all.

 

[Dorian Ertymexx]

It's random. Destroying a marauder outpost has a 5% chance to trigger the Khan, and it has a chance to occur at any time once the midgame starts. Looking at the code, I believe the Khan also stops trying to spawn once the Endgame year passes. The khan might spawn immediately. They might wait until the year 2399. They might never spawn at all.

Thanks. I will keep bashing those "poor" marauders then. ;-)

 

[Cronos988]

Thanks. I will keep bashing those "poor" marauders then. ;-)

Be careful though, the Khan fleets are magic, in that they can spawn directly on top of you, out of nowhere, while you fight the regular marauder fleets. A full marauder home system fleet plus a great Khan fleet is bad news unless you massively overpower the marauders already.

It's a nonsense mechanic to spawn a fleet out of nowhere IMHO. There should be some amount of warning, to allow you at least a chance to FTL out and prepare a defensive line.

 

[Dustman]

Perhaps a bit OT question but… how/when do you get the Khan to appear? I am just looking for info on that part for achievements.

https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Spaceborne_aliens#The_Horde

In short, every year after 2300 it can fire (did for me at 2376 last time as a Hive), and small chance every time you destroy one of their habitats.

 

[UltimateTobi]

Khan is for human only. AI doesn't have chances against him. If you don't fight the Horde, nobody will compete. Khan fleets will fly into FE space as well. Their life is short in such case as well.

With Glavius's Ultimate AI a Determined Exterminator single-handedly defeated the Khan on Ensign.
The AI is capable IF taught to play the game.

Granted. There was iffy Fleet Targeting involved, but individual stacks of the DE were slightly stronger.

 

[Dustman]

With Glavius's Ultimate AI a Determined Exterminator single-handedly defeated the Khan on Ensign.
The AI is capable IF taught to play the game.

Granted. There was iffy Fleet Targeting involved, but individual stacks of the DE were slightly stronger.

I've seen the Khan defeated in vanilla only by FE. Otherwise these roaming fleets are simply everywhere and AI simply doesn't have time to react before loosing most of their territory.

 

[dezuman]

With Glavius's Ultimate AI a Determined Exterminator single-handedly defeated the Khan on Ensign.
The AI is capable IF taught to play the game.

Granted. There was iffy Fleet Targeting involved, but individual stacks of the DE were slightly stronger.

Yeah, when using Glavius' and captain difficulty I have to turn the midgame year down to 2250 for the Khan to even have a chance.

 

[scorch2]

It is better to die as a free xeno, than to live as a slave!

And there is no greater victory, than to fall from this galaxy......a free xeno!

That is why the AI chooses to "commit suicide"

 

[dezuman]

As for the AI not surrendering instantly I have always assume it's a design decision to make the Khan an interesting event. The best meta is almost always to surrender once the Khan gets to you, but if the AI did that the event would be super boring with barely any horde conquest but with the entire galaxy as satrapies. AFAIK the AI has some restriction where it won't surrender until it has lost a few planets, perhaps the player needs a similar restriction?

 

[Dustman]

I only once had a really strong Horde, when they happened to be on opposite side of the galaxy. Was bit surprised to get tons of fleets pouring out of wormholes. And yes, it was more like me and two other free xenos left in the galaxy, rest being satrapies.