So where are the internal religious French wars?

[birincikalite]

AFAIK France had struggled a lot due to the affects of reformation inside the country and the country was destabilized by the Protestant/Catholic conflicts many times.
Right now, as it happens in the game, in 1.8.1 patch I never see them actually destabilize.... I know people complain a lot about how OP France is, but the solution isn't nerfing, the solution is just making the reformation more historical. So France should actually have lots of problems keeping the country Catholic, though this shouldn't mean the country should just surrender and accept Protestanism. Dunno, maybe supported by events they could be couraged to stay Catholic because that would mean even more destabilization as converting to Protestanism would make a happy France with less rebels.

Anyway, to the point, Centres of reformation system is actually very cool but the problem is the reformation only occurs in those near the centre... And I have yet to see a game where France actually gets more than 1 Protestant province because the centre seems to convert most of the times the German/Scandinavian cultures. Aside, centres may not even be close to France which would most likely make conversions near impossible.

Allright, so am I trying to say? The reformation shouldn't only occur in a centre and the region around it, because as it stands France and Iberian coutnries never seem be be affected. Maybe bring the old "random province converts"event to France, or I don't know but I guess you guys could give out ideas too. Well it may be ok for Iberians to have less problems but IMO France should definetely have some religious problems which will mean lots of rebels etc.

 

[Gaamel]

In 1.7 it was very difficult to deal with the reformation as France, for 20-30 years you couldn't wage any war are were at risk financially. With some bad luck you could even trigger the religious Leagues which added to the turmoil.
In 1.8, if you're unlucky there is a center of reformation in liege or kent which will convert 4-5 provinces, not a big deal. So the new 16th Century is huge buff to France actually.

 

[birincikalite]

Btw, does anybody know where in files the centre of reformations are ? I mean, I wanna see how they spread what are the modifiers etc. In events I could only find the first event to make a center appear.

 

[NotConforming]

Btw, does anybody know where in files the centre of reformations are ? I mean, I wanna see how they spread what are the modifiers etc. In events I could only find the first event to make a center appear.

IDK about the code but from many observations I can safely say that the reformation is almost entirely region based:
If a priority exists it goes as follows(for protestants):
1. Bohemian Region
2. German Region
3. Scandinavian Region/The Baltics/Wielkopolska
4. Mercia(basically England)
5. HRE / British Region/ Hungarian Region/ Lithuanian Region
Reformed:
1. Helvetia Region (Switzerland) ; Highlands/Lowlands (Scotland) ; The Low Countries
2. HRE / Hungarian Region
3. Aquitania (south western France)

Countries with a CoR get priority. Countries who are of the either reformed Religion get priority (not as much as owning a CoR)

The problem with this system seems to be that the CoR don't care about their impact. They randomly choose one region and then one random province. Since France is so low on the list they get the occasional reformed conversion. But then the CoR goes back to higher priority regions. This also pushes Italy into the reformation when before they were part of the non reformers because they now get priority with their HRE territory.

Edit: Forgot The Baltics, Wielkopolska and Lithuanian Region

 

[Lemont Elwood]

AFAIK France had struggled a lot due to the affects of reformation inside the country and the country was destabilized by the Protestant/Catholic conflicts many times.
Right now, as it happens in the game, in 1.8.1 patch I never see them actually destabilize.... I know people complain a lot about how OP France is, but the solution isn't nerfing, the solution is just making the reformation more historical. So France should actually have lots of problems keeping the country Catholic, though this shouldn't mean the country should just surrender and accept Protestanism. Dunno, maybe supported by events they could be couraged to stay Catholic because that would mean even more destabilization as converting to Protestanism would make a happy France with less rebels.

Anyway, to the point, Centres of reformation system is actually very cool but the problem is the reformation only occurs in those near the centre... And I have yet to see a game where France actually gets more than 1 Protestant province because the centre seems to convert most of the times the German/Scandinavian cultures. Aside, centres may not even be close to France which would most likely make conversions near impossible.

Allright, so am I trying to say? The reformation shouldn't only occur in a centre and the region around it, because as it stands France and Iberian coutnries never seem be be affected. Maybe bring the old "random province converts"event to France, or I don't know but I guess you guys could give out ideas too. Well it may be ok for Iberians to have less problems but IMO France should definetely have some religious problems which will mean lots of rebels etc.

In the first game I saw France go Protestant due to rebels in the Normandy region. They immediately flipped back, though! Really, though, they are remarkably resistant to conversion due to the position of the Centers of Reformation. So, instead of Huguenots causing turmoil in France, I end up with Calvinist Italy (including Rome).

Personally, I think Reform Desire should be on a nation-by-nation basis, and your Reform Desire (with culture acting as only a modifier) determines the priority for Centers of Reformation, and only one per general region, so you could end up with the typical Bohemia - Scandinavia - England arrangement, but you could also get something like France - Iberia - Italy if the situation were right.

 

[Magean]

In the first game I saw France go Protestant due to rebels in the Normandy region. They immediately flipped back, though! Really, though, they are remarkably resistant to conversion due to the position of the Centers of Reformation. So, instead of Huguenots causing turmoil in France, I end up with Calvinist Italy (including Rome).

The same happened in my last game ! First time I had ever seen a non-Catholic Italy.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Was it a case of Calvinist Switzerland converting the whole area?

 

[eXistenZ2]

That would make france weak, and would hamper the "france must rule everything by 1550 in every game" objective paradox has set

 

[Oryxslayer]

There are two things that must be said in this thread, that I am shocked nobody has posted about.
1. The center of reformed that usually spawns in switzerland has an internal choice to make. Forget the fact that reformed centers rarely spawn in france (usually switzerland, scotland, netherlands), that swiss center makes some internal decisions. It can spread to france, italy, or the hre. From what I have seen, this center usually prioritizes italy ironically, due to the high base tax and divided nature of the region. It then usually works on the german states for the same reason, ignoring france.
2. There is an event called "the french wars of religion" which similar to the war of the roses, or the time of troubles, can screw france. However, the main trigger is that no religion has 50% religious unity within france. Because of frances many decisions, like edit of nantes, this trigger point is never reached, even if france gets a center of reformation.

 

[Sadinotna]

Yeah, I'm playing as monarchist Switzerland (not by choice; got so many tradition hit events I just gave up) and went reformed just to be moderately historical. My center of reform's priorities are:
1. Each province in Switzerland
2. Each province that borders Switzerland.
3. Italy, prioritizing Papal States provinces. (Uh...)
4. Russia, which is presently entirely reformed provinces and stubbornly clinging to Orthodoxy. (Sorry guys)

I would really like it if it could flip some Germans or French so I could keep my allies without using all my diplomats on relations. Not that France has ever actually allows itself to get called into my wars, but their numbers on paper keep the Austrians away.

 

[birincikalite]

IDK about the code but from many observations I can safely say that the reformation is almost entirely region based:
If a priority exists it goes as follows(for protestants):
1. Bohemian Region
2. German Region
3. Scandinavian Region/The Baltics/Wielkopolska
4. Mercia(basically England)
5. HRE / British Region/ Hungarian Region/ Lithuanian Region
Reformed:
1. Helvetia Region (Switzerland) ; Highlands/Lowlands (Scotland) ; The Low Countries
2. HRE / Hungarian Region
3. Aquitania (south western France)

Countries with a CoR get priority. Countries who are of the either reformed Religion get priority (not as much as owning a CoR)

The problem with this system seems to be that the CoR don't care about their impact. They randomly choose one region and then one random province. Since France is so low on the list they get the occasional reformed conversion. But then the CoR goes back to higher priority regions. This also pushes Italy into the reformation when before they were part of the non reformers because they now get priority with their HRE territory.

Edit: Forgot The Baltics, Wielkopolska and Lithuanian Region

Wow, thanks! I've thought a little about it now and your observations seem totally correct.

To the topic: I guess everyone agrees that the reformation has no impact on France and this causes the French to go "Stomp everyone mode" often reaching natural borders a lot earlier in Europe and also stomping Spain/HRE in every single war because there are no religious wars to balance the strengths of France by some weaknesses, which is called as OP by people. This is definetely not a "OP French nerf pl0x" thread but a thread that suggests the current system is workign totally wrong in France both gameplay-wise and historically.

I'm also sure that Devs are aware of this issue. If Wiz or anyone else is reading this : Can you guys please inform us that at least you're working on it(at least you're aware of it then! ) ? Is there a possible solutioun you're thinking that will be implemented in possibly 1.9 ? Or if you don't have a certain idea on how to solve right now maybe we can try to make this thread a Brainstorming one with ideas instead of just complaints.

 

[Sadinotna]

Wow, thanks! I've thought a little about it now and your observations seem totally correct.

To the topic: I guess everyone agrees that the reformation has no impact on France and this causes the French to go "Stomp everyone mode" often reaching natural borders a lot earlier in Europe and also stomping Spain/HRE in every single war because there are no religious wars to balance the strengths of France by some weaknesses, which is called as OP by people. This is definetely not a "OP French nerf pl0x" thread but a thread that suggests the current system is workign totally wrong in France both gameplay-wise and historically.

Except the centers of reform never convert any other big western tech countries either, so no one's particularly nerfed compared to France. Indeed, from my experience, France can't ever beat Austria without player intervention. I've certainly never seen them take Burgundy, Savoy, or Provence once Austria paints them white.