So when are we getting espionage?

[Coopachabra]

Don't get me wrong, destroying an empire and subjugating their species is fun and all, but there needs to some sort of espionage. Something where we can steal research, cause rogue factions, assassinate their leaders, or find out what their fleet consists of. Paradox's other games have some sort of espionage system, so this would also make sense here.

I like all the stuff they're going to add in 1.5, but currently the only way to play is to start wars and hit their fleets head on with very little intel. Some things I'd like to see them add for espionage:

• Figure out out their ships are outfitted.
• Cause factions to be unhappy or revolt.
• Cause factions to like your empire and want more trade and deals you.
• Steal research.
• Assassinate leaders.
• Destroy buildings on planets.
• Cause a system blackout.
• Stealth spy ships solely for the purpose of scouting systems

I'm sure others can come up with more, but there definitely needs to be something relatively soon (1.6?)

 

[Adamsrealm]

- Can see espionage being implemented via helping internal factions of another empire. It's an indirect system that allows both parties to have input to decide the ultimate outcome.
- We already know how enemy ships are outfitted, so that point is redundant.
- Assassinations seems a little op to be honest
- Have no idea what you mean by system blackout, but if it's system wide don't you think that's a little over powered? Doomstacks are already game breaking to be honest so static defenses need buffs as it is.
- Full on stealth is generally a bad idea, maybe just a ship that can leave sensor probes in system, like in sins of a solar empire.
- Opinion boosters should just simply be bribes to that empire or completing tasks for them.
- Stealing research would be do-able. But, It would be complex, because stolen tech stills requires prerequisites to be usable.

To be honest there really isn't enough diplomatic depth for espionage to be properly implemented to start with, stellaris suffers from the currents ages plague of "make it simple so kids and casuals will buy" but it's always too simple. Stellaris is a great concept, but it is over simplified and is built on a 32bit engine which majorly restricts it in scope, which is unfortunate.

 

[Zwollenaer]

Espionage should definitely be added at some point. I also wouldn't object to stealth/cloaked ships so long as there are also counters to them.

At the same time I'm also a bit worried. In many other games espionage is just a massive pain in the ass. Having buildings randomly blow up is just annoying as hell.

 

[Ixal]

Hopefully not too soon. There are many more important things to do and a good espionage system is very hard to do and Paradox has a rather bad track record for doing so.

 

[praftd]

Probably not a high priority. Plus, in most cases, espionage sucks. It always sounds great on paper, but then amounts to nothing but sending spies to sabotage stuff or having your building die all the time.

I'd rather see trade first.

 

[Peko?]

At the same time I'm also a bit worried. In many other games espionage is just a massive pain in the ass. Having buildings randomly blow up is just annoying as hell.

Yeah. Unfortunately I can't think of a single 4X I've played that's had an enjoyable espionage system. Often the best thing I can say about it is that at least I didn't have to deal with it very often and that's not exactly a good place for a game mechanic to be.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Yeah. Unfortunately I can't think of a single 4X I've played that's had an enjoyable espionage system. Often the best thing I can say about it is that at least I didn't have to deal with it very often and that's not exactly a good place for a game mechanic to be.

Absolutely, which is why I'm happy that they won't add it unless they can think of a fun system.

 

[Slarkon]

Espionage should definitely be added at some point. I also wouldn't object to stealth/cloaked ships so long as there are also counters to them.

At the same time I'm also a bit worried. In many other games espionage is just a massive pain in the ass. Having buildings randomly blow up is just annoying as hell.

BOTF - fighting the cardies ffs

 

[Rubido]

First diplomacy and trade, then espionage.

For all, who think, what espionage is unnecessary: can't you see, that Stellaris could do with this? Not just boring stealing or sabotage. Something, that can provide you with secrets of other races (edge in negotiations or even blackmail), give you opportunities in battle (dropping shields of space station or receive plans of enemy cruiser +15 to damage), let you intervene in election or frame someone before Fallen Empire.

With fractions and right implementation game will shine.

 

[tradetem]

I would even argue that espionage should be one of the last things to be implemented as a game mechanic, because influencing other empires will be way more interesting if there are actually many varied empire aspects to infiltrate and sabotage.

As for the mechanic itself, perhaps a pool of spies, who can be assigned various duties: counterespionage, infiltrating a faction (in yours or other empires), infiltrating military command (to gain info on fleet composition, current positions), feeding false information to the enemy( so they'll think you have a fleet somewhere etc.) After giving the order, a progress bar would slowly fill up indicating progress, which could be hampered or accelerated depending on circumstances and options you choose in the new espionage events. So this would be a bit similar to how pre-FTL species are infiltrated. The trick would be to balance sending spies abroad and keeping them at home, so you are both safe and have eyes and ears (or antennae) in foreign territory.

 

[safe-keeper]

Things like "Intel" like in HOI4, where you can see where enemy units are and such if your decryption stat is high enough, or at least significantly higher than the enemy's encryption (I admit it, though, I'm not sure how intel in HOI4 works, to be honest )? Sure. Covert stuff, perhaps implemented as event chains? Quite possibly, if implemented well. Secret CK2-style cloak and dagger scheming? Absolutely.

"Espionage" like sending spies on missions, sabotage, and so on? I'm highly sceptical, and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

In fact, I think CK2 nailed "espionage". Stuff like assassinations and other cloak-and-dagger stuff isn't done by generic "spies", but by potentially anyone -- your family members, your friends, and your loyal allies, Song of Ice and Fire-style. Having to deal with the illoyalty of your admirals, generals, guvernours, and other staff members, like we're going to have to with characters' political "issues" and the faction system in general in 1.5, sounds so much better than generic and, to be honest, pretty clichéd "espionage".

Edit: also, as others said, counters. I don't mind major stuff, even "Star Wars"-level stuff where a battle station loses its shields temporarily due to sabotage, but there has to be a way to prepare for these things, and detect them when they happen so you can counter them. The same way you counter enemy ships, you should be able to stop enemy spies and commandos. Also, I don't want this implemented as an "espionage" system, but rather as rare events, probably implemented as "story arc" event chains.

 

[tradetem]

Hmm, come to think of it, CK2 does have an ok intrigue system. It's just that Stellaris doesn't have enough depth in characters to actually do cool stuff, like governor revolts (since leader slots and influence is precious, you skip on employing governors usually) which could be monitored and subdued with a vigilant internal security appartus [with fun event chains and everything]. We'll have to see how 1.5 handles factions to see if characters can be expanded upon in an interesting way.

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

Trade,diplomacy,espionnage seems to be the 3 bigs features stellaris is lacking. Empire management was the fourth but with 1.5 this could be good, probably need some tweaks and additions so...

 

[Cagliostro]

I don't think that i have ever actually enjoyed espionage in a game, though it sounds cool on paper. Much easier to screw up than to get right.

 

[Dalinski]

Stellaris, depending on how factions work out in 1.5 has the makings for a really good espionage system. Imagine Secret factions that you need to first reveal, infiltrating the enemies "Fleet Arm" faction and protecting your own "Intelligence Agency" faction from being infiltrated. Boosting an enemies growing "Wrestless" factions and infiltrating their "Research & Development" via their own scientists.

Could be so epic....

 

[Kedryn]

I don't think that i have ever actually enjoyed espionage in a game, though it sounds cool on paper. Much easier to screw up than to get right.

Me either. Or stealth, though that's because game-makers seem to equate stealth with invisibility.

But, since I only play single, I can always just mod it out if it ever gets added.

 

[The Shacks]

I'm happy with the rate of development but I'd much rather see the next major area worked upon being trade. You could add semi-combat/war elements like more indepth blockading, whilst also making the food system more nuanced, allowing for trade-route and a general more interesting and varied use for energy/building tall and introducing organic/controlled civillian/corporate shyzz. Espionage can wait till the game is bristling with features i'd say. As others have pointed out its hard to do and often done wrong, it'll fit in better when the game is more feature complete, more options to synergise off.

 

[Adaption]

I think I remember in some of the early dev previews, the interviewer asked about an espionage system, which the devs said wasn't going to happen, but you never know...?
Honestly, if Stellaris had those extra features which everyone expected to be included; espionage, economic-trade systems, beefed up pop mechanics, I'd be losing sleep over it all over again.

 

[Kayden_II]

Cause factions to be unhappy or revolt.

Assassinate leaders.

Destroy buildings on planets.

Cause a system blackout.

This is Stuff, Which has the Enemy-AI, too ...
It's the generic Type of an Espionage-System, Which bugs You = Rather Frustration than Fun.

 

[Summin Cool]

Because they are doing big updates for one area rather than general improvements I reckon it will be one of the later expansions. I could be wrong though.