good point - I just copied from the wiki and that seems to be missing that info! Yeah Leviathan is defo a good idea for any play in that region
So what's the overall opinion on Origins and Leviathan now?
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I really enjoy playing in SE Asia and that was the only reason I picked up Leviathan. All the rest of the content in this dlc outside this geographical area is just various degrees of padding. I haven't done any colonising North America so far but will wait for the next patch.
If you haven't any interest in the area I would skip. The same could be said of Origins
If you haven't any interest in the area I would skip. The same could be said of Origins
It seems to be partially fixed in 1.30.6:
1.30.4:
- AI - Economy: Fixed bug causing AI to evaluate prio to pay back loans to zero if they had too many loans
- AI - Economy: AI now better on calculating ROI when comparing loans and buildings
- AI will now build less coastal defence buildings
- AI considering themselves being "recovered" after a hell war a bit earlier and will dismiss mercs earlier.
Some stuff I read about it I cannot confirm. My own allies were mostly reliable, some not available at times for wars of conquest, but nothing I personally would not expect or regard as quirky. In general the AI poses a proper challenge and countries develop in a normal way. So I guess it is partially fixed, if what remains is bothering, personal preference/open for debate.
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Partially fixed is still an improvement. I found that bug pretty game breaking, but I can't remember exactly when. If I was to get Origins, would I have to use the latest patch?
Origins is 1.32
Latest is 1.33
1.32 got more bugs than 1.33 but 1.33 got the fort and combat change. Depends what you prefer.
Check for the patch notes i guess.
Origins is pretty fun. Adds a lot of content and makes any African nation really enjoyable. I had a blast playing Kilwa.
Leviathan will always be controversial but it's not that bad anymore now it's main features have been balanced. The Favour mechanic is pretty neat, can get annoying with the AI constantly requesting money. The SEA mission trees are cool too and monuments are a cool feature aswell, nice to see them updating and adding to them in each DLC too. It's not worth the price tag, should be a lot cheaper, but it's not a bad DLC as such. It's come a LONG way since release that's for sure.
Also, quick note, the colonisation unbalance and bugs were not introduced by Leviathan, rather introduced by the Conquest of Paradise rework that released alongside Leviathan. They should be fixed for 1.34 so if you want to play a colonial nation I say wait for the patch to release in September/October.
Leviathan will always be controversial but it's not that bad anymore now it's main features have been balanced. The Favour mechanic is pretty neat, can get annoying with the AI constantly requesting money. The SEA mission trees are cool too and monuments are a cool feature aswell, nice to see them updating and adding to them in each DLC too. It's not worth the price tag, should be a lot cheaper, but it's not a bad DLC as such. It's come a LONG way since release that's for sure.
Also, quick note, the colonisation unbalance and bugs were not introduced by Leviathan, rather introduced by the Conquest of Paradise rework that released alongside Leviathan. They should be fixed for 1.34 so if you want to play a colonial nation I say wait for the patch to release in September/October.
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I was an early dis-respecter of both DLC's, but just like Imperator Rome, subsequent fixes have improved both. I really like Monuments and the Favor system overall. The missions and flavor are nice for those who play in those areas, of course.
I still think that fort spam is too much, and the AI can be cheesed. Let's say you are fighting the Ottomans in Anatolia and you scrape up enough warscore to win. If you take a province with a fort -- i.e. you've broken their line of forts and then for the rest you just take money causing them to take some loans. Next, thing -- Ottomans delete every fort in their country on both sides of the straights, making the next war unbelievably easy.
In short, the AI shouldn't go on a fortification spree then a fortification demolition bender, and then back again.
I still think that fort spam is too much, and the AI can be cheesed. Let's say you are fighting the Ottomans in Anatolia and you scrape up enough warscore to win. If you take a province with a fort -- i.e. you've broken their line of forts and then for the rest you just take money causing them to take some loans. Next, thing -- Ottomans delete every fort in their country on both sides of the straights, making the next war unbelievably easy.
In short, the AI shouldn't go on a fortification spree then a fortification demolition bender, and then back again.
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why are so many people saying that colonization is almost impossible? thats just not true...
my recent playthrough is spain for the forever golden achievement and whole central and south america is mine without an issue. of course the natives are more aggressive (thats just realistic!!!!) but you are always like 2,3 tecs higher than them and you can stack wipe them left and right.
build a navy with transports if you want to have a colonial empire (sounds reasonable and realistic doesnt it?)
I don't know about other people, but I think there are three issues that make me not want to play colonial.
(1) Way too many provinces. This has partially been solved by the improved colonial types.
(2) Pace of colonialization. It either goes way to fast or way to slow.
(3) Aggression from the Native Nations. I don't have a problem with their aggression inherently. What I can't stand is the amount of attention I have to devote to baby sitting my colonial nations to keep the Natives from gutting them. If I set up in Brazil, let's say, and turn my attention to something that requires focus -- fighting the Ottomans, for example. When my war is over, I'll find that my Brazil has completely been destroyed by multiple natives. Even a stack of 14-2-1 could have dealt with that -- if only I were dragged into the war. The flip side of this is when you fight a big colonial power, you'll find that 2/3 of their Army is in the colonies and you can walk all over them. I mentally discount Spain's army strength 50% and know that as long as I can siege them down fast, I can grab some clay before their big stacks make it home. Rinse, repeat.
(1) Way too many provinces. This has partially been solved by the improved colonial types.
(2) Pace of colonialization. It either goes way to fast or way to slow.
(3) Aggression from the Native Nations. I don't have a problem with their aggression inherently. What I can't stand is the amount of attention I have to devote to baby sitting my colonial nations to keep the Natives from gutting them. If I set up in Brazil, let's say, and turn my attention to something that requires focus -- fighting the Ottomans, for example. When my war is over, I'll find that my Brazil has completely been destroyed by multiple natives. Even a stack of 14-2-1 could have dealt with that -- if only I were dragged into the war. The flip side of this is when you fight a big colonial power, you'll find that 2/3 of their Army is in the colonies and you can walk all over them. I mentally discount Spain's army strength 50% and know that as long as I can siege them down fast, I can grab some clay before their big stacks make it home. Rinse, repeat.
Leviathan is one of the better dlcs Paradox released with the only negative being that all the extra provinces in australia and north america killed performance and any chance of getting new provinces in actually played regions of the world. Origins meanwhile is just mission trees and there really isnt anything special here wich makes you want to play a country more often. Some mission trees even are irrelevant to their country specific achievenments leading you to not even touch them like the Kilwa one.
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Leviathan brings a lot ... like a LOT of mission trees, events, idea sets, tags, and overall different flavor into the game and in that sens i love it and think it's worth a price
as said above unless you want some expended mission trees in africa, Origin isn't worth
i am playing on 1.32 as many features of 1.33 just pissed me, imo 1.32 is pretty stable even in late game, but i rarelly play past 1700ish
also since leviathan you can more often see castille or france collapse, hre passing refrms, or plc survive and blob out... overall a way more hazardus european shape then what you expect them to be when you discover them for the first time in 1600 while chilling in malayas
as said above unless you want some expended mission trees in africa, Origin isn't worth
i am playing on 1.32 as many features of 1.33 just pissed me, imo 1.32 is pretty stable even in late game, but i rarelly play past 1700ish
also since leviathan you can more often see castille or france collapse, hre passing refrms, or plc survive and blob out... overall a way more hazardus european shape then what you expect them to be when you discover them for the first time in 1600 while chilling in malayas
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Ideas and tags are in base game, siam has non mission tree fall back iirc
Well I'm part way through a campaign as Japan, using 1.30.6 and it's erm. Passive. Unless I declare, I've not had anyone declare on me, not even Ming, who usually steam roll me once I start to colonise Taiwan. I'm early 1600s. I have Alaska, California and Australia as my colonies. I'm also Catholic, which is the first time I have gone so as Japan. I have noticed France is defender of the faith, so maybe that is why Ming is being cautious.
Interesting. So the AI got some significant improvements after1.30.6. I can confirm that the AI is rarely declaring by itself in my games, usually you start the action by declaring, at least on normal difficulty. Can you say something about performance in comparison to 1.33? Is 1.30.6 snappier, faster etc.?
I've read through some dev diaries and understand now, that leviathan was quite ambitious, probably the biggest sized DLC they created. Many changes of the game, but those significant changes led to sideeffects, like new colony mechanics in NA. Or pushing too far with new provinces and tags. Their QA was horrible, but it seems they learned from that backlash. I will probably migrate o 1.34 when its released, it looks like they reaching now a state where most annoyances will be fixed.
I really appreciate that they tackled the AI, significantly overhauling it. Ambitious stuff. If they succeed and the AI is now properly using all the mechanics they introduced in the last 5-6 DLCs that would be really nice. Same goes for combat changes, they misfired in 1.33 regarding unwanted sideeffects, but i hope they need only 1.34 to rectify it. Looking really forward to 1.34 now.
To all people saying Origin or other Immersion Packs are not worth, those DLCs finance a lot of free changes in the new version, so dont complain that paradox gives you too many features for free. Does not mean that pricing of DLCs is always right, though.
The patch is comparable to emperor in scope, but for dlc it went with both leviathan and conquest of paradise
But they are worthless if you dont play in the region, rule and golden are both euro GP, meanwhile leviathan and origins buff rando tags which still won't be consolidated by the time euros rock up as they should have. Scandi dlc likely to be similar results with and without dlc for ai, except norway might go independent and livonian order might form livonia. We used to get free patches between dlc patches regularly but tinto largely forgot this idea until 1.33 was done to make up for origins and leviathan release being cackhanded
Overall I liked them both. Bugs is annoying sure, but personally I am more forgiving about them. I like playing outside Europe (Bahmanis Nr. 1!) and added content for those regions is very nice. Tidore, Majapahit and Malacca were definitely my favorites of Leviathan and Mutapa, Ethiopia and Kongo were top tiers for me of Origins.
Gameplay is very smooth in 1.30.6, but I still feel the passive nature of the AI, even if it was tweaked. It was vastly improved in the latest patch.
I think I will have to reapply the latest patch, and go with the other bugs. But maybe there isn't long to wait for the new one.
There may be a caveat however. If historical nations are on, those nations are rampant. England and France were blobbing everywhere, to the extent that England formed GB before the end of the 1500s AND was going mad with colonies. There were four powerful nations all with over 1000 dev by 1590, GB, Ottomans, France and Ming.
I think I will have to reapply the latest patch, and go with the other bugs. But maybe there isn't long to wait for the new one.
There may be a caveat however. If historical nations are on, those nations are rampant. England and France were blobbing everywhere, to the extent that England formed GB before the end of the 1500s AND was going mad with colonies. There were four powerful nations all with over 1000 dev by 1590, GB, Ottomans, France and Ming.