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Ape

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Yes.

Though I did bring this up to Victoria and some time ago for HoI2 (though no one listens to me :( )

I do doubt it will be implemented. :(
 

mvsnconsolegene

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Umm...perhaps an auto-assign would be acceptable to make this work.

Listen, here me out :) - I know everyone wants to control who's in command of what...I definately do...

So I suggest that the Personel List now list EVERYBODY, even if they are currently in command of a division, corps, whatever. So that even though every division has a leader automatically, you can still personalize your divisions whenever you want to...you just don't have to worry about putting somebody in command of EVERY division on a 200 division front.

So you can still select guderian to command this armoured corps, but if you forget to assign someone - there is still someone of high enough rank to command them automatically.

- MVSN
 

unmerged(15982)

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Okay, I'll also make a suggestion about the interface. :)

My idea would be that you select land units in a province as usual. With a unit highlighted, click "reorganize" from the command menu at the side of the screen or something.

Now a new screen opens, showing you all the divisions, armies and corps within that province and their respective echelon chains. You're now ready to freely add, subtract, create new or disband higher echelon organizations, mainly by simple clicking or drag-and-drop means.
This way you'll have total freedom to make up an army. For example, an army could consist of 4 independant divisions or 3 corps each with 3 divisions and an independant division, or whatever.

You'll also solve the present limitations when it comes to exchanging sub-units in the present system.

A corps must have a minimum of 2 divisions (or else it's just a division).

To avoid exploits, command is only exercised by the overall leader, although all leaders will gain experience and add traits to the unit(s) under their command.

Avoid exploit alternative I: corps organizations are automatically dissolved when merged into an army.

Avoid exploit alternative II: corps organizations remain within an army (for decoration only) but are leaderless.

All divisons enter the game unattached and will be assigned a default leader from the leader list (to prevent leaderless divisions). Replace him if you like (recommended, you'll never have to do it again).

Higher echelon organizations will only exist once you've created them (with the exception of those at start of a scenario). There will be no more 23. Infantry Division/I Corps nonsense, duplicated by every new division in the game. You should of course be free to change the default designation of the higher echelon created at will, just like with the divisions.

What leaders are assigned to what will be given with unit information as you hoover over a province, when you click a certain unit or from the leader list (leaders will not simply disappear from this list only because they are given a command).

Finally, it's great to hear we are just about unanimous about the importance of the stay-with-unit feature. Now, we'll just got to make sure they'll hear us.
Bump!
 
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Mar 17, 2004
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Ardito said:
....

All divisons enter the game unattached and will be assigned a default leader from the leader list (to prevent leaderless divisions). Replace him if you like (recommended, you'll never have to do it again).
It would be good if Historical units would automatically 'scan' the leader list when created to see if their 'historical leader' was available and assign him automatically if he / she is available.
(Note: this has been discussed before too - when a unit is captured or destroyed the leader in charge of that unit should somehow be 'marked' so that those of us who do not like to use such people again find leader lists easier to manage :) )

And I agree with the rest too :)
 

unmerged(15982)

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It would be good if Historical units would automatically 'scan' the leader list when created to see if their 'historical leader' was available and assign him automatically if he / she is available.

Hey, I would love this idea. Brings flavour.

And I agree with the rest too :)

In which I case I feel it's justified to go BUMP! :D
 
Mar 17, 2004
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Well, the new screenie and Johan provide an answer:

HQ Units.

So what does this mean?

New possibilities on the battlefield.
WWII saw the arrival of 'Blitzkrieg' warfare (gross simplification - don't flame me :eek: -read on)

So rather than enguage all the front line units one of the goals was to bypass and go for command and control.
Will this now become an objective in HoI2?
What will be the result?
If you do successfully capture an enemy HQ what will happen?
IMO it is likely to result in a large loss of ORG for ALL units under that command.
How about moving HQ units?
A temporary and small loss of ORG for all units under that command?

This will mean that placement of you HQ units will be all important :)
On attack:
Place your HQ too far back and the attacking units get too far ahead - suffer a resulting degredation of ORG and the Attack peiters out?
Place your HQ too far forward and risk losing it to a Counter Attack?
On defence:
Place your HQ too far back and suffer from low org ORG because the HQ is 'out of touch'?
Place your HQ too far forward and risk it being over-run and a collapse of the front?

What do you all think?
 

unmerged(11610)

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We have so little information about HQ-unit that we can only make pure guesses. What we do know now? We know there will be specific HQ divisions and that's it. We have discussed about HQ-units and chain of command many times before. I'm a fan of HQ-unit and better supply system (look thread here).

My guess is, that HQ-unit can be build like regular divisions. Maybe we can give HQ-unit a leader and it will give bonuses to nearby forces. Maybe it is necessary to build HQ to stack more than three divisions? My hope is HQ-unit is more than FM's in HoI, they should add somekind of chain of command to game. HQ's could give supply and attack/defend bonus. Maybe they are supply depots (hubs) and you can attack them with 'logistical strike'. If they represent supply hub I can imagine that HQ-unit could give speed bonus too (fuel and supplies are transferred faster). If you loose your HQ it should give you org loses like czar1111 suggested and it could also halt your movement for a while.

Yep, we can only speculate now... :( Hopefully we get little more information how HQ-units are handled in game. Will they be supply hubs? What kind of bonuses they give to the units? Can we give leader to them and what level of leader? Is there a chain of command?

I like auto-assign leader too, it will make playing game more easy. At least AI should give decent leader to new divisions. If we will have leaders for each divisions, corps and armies that would be WET DREAM. But then we will need a lot of leaders. 200+ for Russia, Germany and USA. Oh yeah! That would be great. :cool:
 
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unmerged(15982)

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Problem is, Johan's announcement about HQ units tells us nothing about the actual subject of this thread, which is the absolute need of having divisional leaders stay with their divisions when these are amalgated into larger formations (corps/armies/armygroups). This in order to make them earn experience and avoid a lot of hazzling with heaps of independent divisons, irrelevant decision making on part of the player and similar.

A totally unanimous fan base has expressed its wish in this regard and I even tried to question Johan about it in the last sceen shot thread (yesterday), but no response from either designers or moderators.

Seems like I'm one of their favourite board contributors - NOT. :(
 
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Mar 17, 2004
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Ardito said:
Seems like I'm one of their favourite board contributors - NOT. :(

Awwwww :(

I still love you... *Hugs Ardito* :)

But, yes a little bit more info would be nice to feed our addiction.
After all, in less than 24 hours the screenshot had more hits than the forum rules have had in 24 weeks - now the board is rapidly dying again :(

I had hoped for more discussion on what things are and how they will work:
For instance -
There appears to be Factories, AA, Land Forts and Coastal Forts as in HoI - but how to upgrade? NO UPGRADE BUTTONS!
Click directly on the Icons? Not possible to upgrade at all?
I would have thought someone would have said something. :(
*EDIT: Like Czar you fool - that will be on the production screen! :eek:o
Everyone just looked at the screenie and said "Yeah, great!" and buggered off again! :(

Come back! :)
 
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unmerged(12244)

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czar1111 said:
Awwwww :(

I still love you... *Hugs Ardito* :)

But, yes a little bit more info would be nice to feed our addiction.
After all, in less than 24 hours the screenshot had more hits than the forum rules have had in 24 weeks - now the board is rapidly dying again :(

I had hoped for more discussion on what things are and how they will work:
For instance -
There appears to be Factories, AA, Land Forts and Coastal Forts as in HoI - but how to upgrade? NO UPGRADE BUTTONS!
Click directly on the Icons? Not possible to upgrade at all?
I would have thought someone would have said something. :(
*EDIT: Like Czar you fool - that will be on the production screen! :eek:o
Everyone just looked at the screenie and said "Yeah, great!" and buggered off again! :(

Come back! :)

relax :) its an alpha shot, i dont think all of the design of every button is clear yet. Maybe not even decision or implementation of HQ units should work.
They got an idea about they want them to work but maybe not tested the idea so they dont wanna give out some false information before they themselves know.Its alittle early...its August, ask the same question in acouple of months and you probable get a much better answer.
 
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eye-switcher said:
relax :) its an alpha shot, i dont think all of the design of every button is clear yet. Maybe not even decision or implementation of HQ units should work.
They got an idea about they want them to work but maybe not tested the idea so they dont wanna give out some false information before they themselves know...

Not true. They are calling for 'Junior' Betas. A lot of the moderators and 'Senior Betas' have already had a play and seen if these ideas are playable. All that is left is for the 'Junior' betas to argue over game balance of the new units.

Besides which, Johan has said "There will be HQ units in the game" (not sure if that is exact quote?). Johan knows that this forum is a public one and that any Game Reviewer who cares to read it can, and will, quote him on this. So HQ Units will be there unless a MAJOR problem is unearthed during on going beta testing.

The issues now are only the exact values / bonuses / cost of HQ units in the game (balance). That will be interesting because a continential HQ unit is different to an Archipelligo HQ unit interms of the way it must work...

I would still like someone to feed us some more info on how the new command structure works under the new HQ units - even if the info is a little bit sketchy and not 100% complete. Maybe post a link to a post which is closest to the truth?? :)
 

unmerged(15982)

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I agree with the czar. There's a sense of urgency in the air. Can say this much, if there'll be no chain of command in the game - even divisions + single overstructure will do it in my opinion, like:

8 divisions with leaders + 1 army commander = army

or

3 divisions with leaders + 1 corps commander = corps

- it will ruin half the game for me. It's that important!
 

unmerged(13933)

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I'm hoping for more levels for command structure. At the same time I fear it's going to be just like in Vicky...

Every division should have a dedicated commander. The commander should be automatically assigned and later on you could change to different leader.

Even if they add just one level above the korps it would be okay but I'm hoping for 2-3 levels more. Division-korps-army-armygroup would suffice. You could ofcourse add frontlevel too.

I got mixed feelings about the recent screenshot which introduces the hq division. It would be okay if it includes the 'supply depot' system i.e logistics but otherwise I doubt hq's were of division size. Also I hope they are not static units. And there's nothing suggesting that so far.
 
Mar 17, 2004
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Icer said:
... I doubt hq's were of division size. Also I hope they are not static units. And there's nothing suggesting that so far.

No, my GUESS is that they are small units with very little (no) combat strength on their own. I wonder how much they 'cost' to build?
Again my GUESS is that they cost very little but take TIME to build.
I also wonder how they are linked to Armies-Corps-Divisions?
The link could be geographical (ie all units in neigbouring provinces?) or through some kind of 'communication' set up. If this is true it could well be logistical in nature too?

It is also the first screenshot we have seen with a province selected rather than an army.

I cannot help wondering if the names to the right of the Picture of Moscow might also be related to the presence of the HQ unit?
  • Nogins -
  • Kalini -
  • Rybins -
  • Mozhai -
  • Rzhev -
are all neighbouring provinces - but are they also the provinces under control of the HQ unit??
 

unmerged(12244)

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czar1111 said:
Not true. They are calling for 'Junior' Betas. A lot of the moderators and 'Senior Betas' have already had a play and seen if these ideas are playable. All that is left is for the 'Junior' betas to argue over game balance of the new units.

Besides which, Johan has said "There will be HQ units in the game" (not sure if that is exact quote?). Johan knows that this forum is a public one and that any Game Reviewer who cares to read it can, and will, quote him on this. So HQ Units will be there unless a MAJOR problem is unearthed during on going beta testing.

The issues now are only the exact values / bonuses / cost of HQ units in the game (balance). That will be interesting because a continential HQ unit is different to an Archipelligo HQ unit interms of the way it must work...

I would still like someone to feed us some more info on how the new command structure works under the new HQ units - even if the info is a little bit sketchy and not 100% complete. Maybe post a link to a post which is closest to the truth?? :)

I never disputed that they shoulent be in the game, i know they are in.
I just said that as of yet they might not know how the ideas might work out in the game, so therefore these HQ units may change in function.
I dont say that it is this way just a guess :D but it is plausible.
Or ...horrible thought they just want to keep a couple of surprises...as i said its still just Ahugust :D
 

unmerged(29695)

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Johan Jung said:
I hope it will be possible to "lock" units together. I usually have about ten commanders in an armygroup, and it is not easy when you have to move all those ten units over and over again. especially when they are mixed with other units in a province. If you could lock them into one frame it would be just one movement instead of ten, which would save me a lot of time (I would not need to pause :D )

erm u CAN do this allready in HOI... use STRG + (number)key like in Command and Conquer ;)
 

Raczynski

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MuckyPup said:
i don't think it is too bad atm. Seperate divisional commanders :eek:o in my opinion. It is :cool: if you are someone like Yugoslavia but very :( and :mad: when you are UK or Russia, I'd imagine ;).

What if it was the game engine that assign random mjr. general for you?
 
Mar 17, 2004
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Other thread got locked

:rofl:

Well Ardito, THAT didn't work did it! :rofl:

Might I suggest laying a line of beer steins from the Paradox offices to a box trap? When Johan enters the box... pull the string. Ta DA! Then ask away! :rofl:

Honestly though, mods and Paradox and Johan: We are fans and we like your games. The screenies are VERY NICE and have a lot of promise. But we are cold and hungry out here in we-are-not-betas-land :(
We have run out of things to argue about - and it all seems a bit pointless to be debating issues which may have already been decided and fixed :(

We don't even mind guessing if there is feedback - but that has stopped too :(

Mr T? Do you want to go back on my Christmas card list? You know what you must do. :)