So, what tags are never going to appear in 1444-1821?

[TheMeInTeam]

The Knights have Maltese as a primary culture. I've seen them pop up on Malta.

I believe that is due to the event. I have seen Malta itself spawn there instead from rebellion.

 

[PsysmicSound]

The Knights have Maltese as a primary culture. I've seen them pop up on Malta.

They used to, but now it's Occitan.

 

[PsysmicSound]

Toulouse is not primary, the Occitan culture is primary to Provence.

Toulouse is the primary nation of Aquitaine. Most of its core provinces have Occitan culture, but the capital is Aquitaine. Exactly why the cultures representing the Langues d'Oc are grouped the way they are in this game is beyond me.

 

[PsysmicSound]

TBH Etruria, Italy, Westphalia etc can now be represented as client states instead of occupying distinct tags. From my understanding during the last half year, the Devs would rather not include new tags in the game atm. Florence was added after intense lobbying by using the Lancaster tag. So at least for Etruria since it was a client state itself I don't see how just because it "existed" historically it should occupy precious tag estate.

That also makes sense, but there's no precedent for having client states at the game start, hence why I don't think Etruria will be going anywhere, but I don't really know how much effort would be required to have client states in the history files. I don't see them doing it just for Etruria, and the other two you mentioned serve a dual purpose in-game: they represent the historic client states of France in the appropriate start dates, and at any other time, they represent a formable nation for those who unite certain regions. Certainly this makes sense for Italy (the only issue being which flag to use, which I don't see being resolved until they implement Victoria-style dynamic flags, if and when they do), but formable Westphalia just seems like an excuse to keep it in the game. But as I mentioned before, there are six completely defunct tags that are yet to be recycled, so I don't see why they'd change these things around until they've been repurposed.

 

[AurochsAway]

They used to, but now it's Occitan.

Thanks for this info. I wonder why they changed it.

 

[jebates]

Has anyone ever seen the Knights pop up as revolters in southern France? (Is that possible?) That would be crazy!

 

[PsysmicSound]

Thanks for this info. I wonder why they changed it.

Because they had nothing to do with Malta until they moved there from Rhodes. They had members from all over Europe, but the Occitans tended to be the biggest contributors.

 

[Desertfox]

I found that if independence rebels (independence for culture X) occupy a province with no core, and you accept demands, a nation and core is created that matches the culture of the province. So cores don't have to exist at the beginning of the game and can still appear in game.

 

[Vaximillian]

↑
You don't even have to accept demands, a core is automagically created upon occupation.

 

[Utretch]

I hate the idea of losing Lanfang, it's such a cool little state, maybe the spawning event could be given a very broad timeframe, very low MTHH, so that it can occasionally appear before the island is colonized. Disaster events for Lan Xang and whoever controls Java to spit out the splinter tags would definitely be good. Indochina has lots of good tags, they're just not optimally used.

 

[FleetingRain]

IIRC Zhungar is the primary nation for Oirat (yeah), so they can always appear.


The saddest thing is that ALL those nations could and should appear in the 1444 bookmark, they only need simple events/decisions or cores somewhere... oh well.

 

[Xinkc]

I've seen Zunghar actually. And, well, I usually don't pay alot of attention to what happens in asia etc.
But I'll add in a few more:
Normandy
Alencon
Estonia
Aquileia
Champagne
Guyenne
Toulouse
Tirol
Gotland
León
Galicia

All of these have a rather hard time appearing, as most of them are accepted cultures in their land, especially the french ones will rarely appear.

I've seen each and every one of those pop out from time to time, including Aquileia before it had cores. In general, I'm against the removal of the potential minor states because they often help in breaking down large, otherwise hemogenous blots like Castile and France.

 

[Thundercomet]

I don't know if this counts for anything, but I recall having a nationalist rebel faction for Perak in an Ayutthaya game I played. So they're technically not a dead tag, right?

 

[deezee]

I hate the idea of losing Lanfang, it's such a cool little state, maybe the spawning event could be given a very broad timeframe, very low MTHH, so that it can occasionally appear before the island is colonized. Disaster events for Lan Xang and whoever controls Java to spit out the splinter tags would definitely be good. Indochina has lots of good tags, they're just not optimally used.

I'm not an expert; I've only read like a single book on the subject. But to my knowledge, the Lanfang (and several other republics represented by its tag) formed after Chinese workers who were invited by Malaysian rulers to develop western Borneo became independent and organized their own republics.

Perhaps we can add an extra way for Lanfang to form, in which a Malay or Chinese ruler who is colonizing or has colonized Western Borneo can establish Lanfang as a OPM vassal state by decision, in exchange for a trade efficiency bonus or something on those lines. Should this Malay government fall apart (such as the historical example of being attacked by the Dutch), we might occasionally see Lanfang lose its vassal status and become independent.

It might be a fun way to add a bit of flavor to a region which tends to become oddly Portugese in many campaigns...

 

[Chlodio]

I'm aware of six totally unused tags - Revolutionary France, Travancore, Deva Bengal, Taira, Fujiwara, and Tachibana. The rest, however rare they might be, are all technically possible to appear. As for how many fitting new tags can replace them, there's far more than six, to be sure. The other day I listed about twenty without trying particularly hard, and that was only those which wouldn't require new cultures or changes to province layout.

Unused daimyos (beyond their start date) are: Amago, Asakura, Hojo, Maeda, Tokugawa, Chosokabe, Ikeda, Mori and Oda.

Taira, Fujiwara, and Tachibana aren't in the game... They and Minamato disappeared in Kamakura period.

Toulouse is not primary, the Occitan culture is primary to Provence.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Provence would be Anjou instead? Duke of Anjou was Rene's primary title County of Provence was something that come along with it, last heraldic Count of Provence died in 1481 and Provence became just a governorship of France, while Duke of Anjou is still being claimed today.

 

[Reboundingdice]

Has anyone ever seen the Knights pop up as revolters in southern France? (Is that possible?) That would be crazy!

Well time to play around with ironman disabled and attempt to see if it can happen.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Keeping an eye on this discussion.

I'm aware of six totally unused tags - Revolutionary France, Travancore, Deva Bengal, Taira, Fujiwara, and Tachibana. The rest, however rare they might be, are all technically possible to appear. As for how many fitting new tags can replace them, there's far more than six, to be sure. The other day I listed about twenty without trying particularly hard, and that was only those which wouldn't require new cultures or changes to province layout.

Of these only Revolutionary France is an unused tag.
Travancore was renamed to Venad before the initial release of EU4. Venad is a bit more general and works for a longer time period which is why it was renamed.
Deva Bengal, Taira, Fujiwara and Tachibana have never existed as tags in EU4 (though they did exist in EU3).

For a complete list of tags in the game see common/country_tags/00_countries.txt

 

[Sunspawn]

I've never seen Leon appear all natural, but yes, they are a primary. Most of the french minors are not, though. Actually, it's only Provence, Guyenne and Normandy which are primary.

In my Portugal game, Leon and Galicia got kicked out of Castille in a AI-AI war. It was what prompted me to eat Castille later.

 

[Dutchman251]

The worst situation is in SE Asia, where especially on Java, the Philippines and Sumatra are a lot of tags that fit in uncolonized provinces. There was a rather good suggestion on them in the suggestion forum. The dead tags in Malacca also never appear, because everyone who fights there wants all the land

 

[Me_]

Keeping an eye on this discussion.



Of these only Revolutionary France is an unused tag.

I'd like to plug my suggestion, to reuse it for Regensburg. A Free Imperial City of historical importance, that is incorrectly a part of Bavaria in 1444.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...s-tag-for-the-free-city-of-regensburg.864448/