So, what tags are never going to appear in 1444-1821?

[Krajzen]

I am talking about some tags in the game which nominally exist in files (listed on wiki) but which can never appear in the game unless you started at a particular bookmark, because otherwise they never get cores and can never appear from events or formations.

Don't mistake those with states which are super rare but potentially can appear in a normal game (Karelia, Estonia) or which appear very late game by special events (Sokoto, Darfur). I am trying to compile a list of 'dead' eu4 tags that can appear never ever unless you play a particular bookmark.

Candidates:

*Etruria - 1801. Italian Enlightened Despotism that appear at this nonsensical bookmark, based on Napoleonic intervention in Italy, and can never ever appear before due to total lack of cores.
*Annam, Champassak, Luang Prabang, Muan Phuang, Vientiane - first is a splinter of Dai Viet and latter four are splinters of Lan Xang; they never have cores and there are no events spawning them/dividing aforementioned nations unless you activate very particular 1558 (Annam) or 1707 bookmark (and since 1707 bookmark, IIRC, Lan Xang can never reappear)
*Lanfang - very interesting case: Chinese Republic appearing on Borneo in 1777; theoretically it can spawn here by the event in every game so it's not dead tag de iure, but the problem is, those provinces are colonized in every single eu4 game I have ever seen, as even if somehow all Western colonial powers disappeared, there are still Malayan nations eager to colonise and some of them even have +1 colonist idea relatively early on. So it is theoretically not dead, practically impossible to appear.
*Banten, Cirebon, Demak, Perak - ''Does not exist or have cores in 1444.'' for each of them according to wiki and I have never ever seen them indeed. Cirebok-1482 bookmark, Banten-1527 bookmark.
*Khoshuud - no cores, 1580 start in Tibet.


Has anybody ever seen any of those countries outside of their particular bookmarks? Are there any more dead tags which never appear? What can be done with them all, should they be deleted?

I think four Laotian splinters should be spawned by special disaster for Lan Xang, Deccan-Annam-Banten-Cirebon-Demak-Perak-Khoshuud-Zunghar should get cores or events at 1444 bookmark, while Etruria and Langang should be simply deleted from the game because there is no way or need to represent them (this has already happened to few tags, such as Lancaster/York - they were simply deleted).

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Minor offtop. The list of nations that appear via post-1444 historical events IIRC:
Sulu, Fulo, Ashanti, Bali, Funj, Maguindanao, Kaabu, Habsan, Darfur, Segu, Hobyo, Sokoto.

Zunghar, Malta, Estonia, Karelia, Sapmi, Sharjah are all very rare but can appear.

 

[PsysmicSound]

I've seen Deccan, Sharjah, and Kabylia, none of which required player interference. I've actually seen Sharjah quite a few times, in fact.

 

[PsysmicSound]

I imagine Malta can show up from time to time, as it's the only tag with Maltese as primary culture, so any revolters would defect to them once Sicily loses its core on the island.

 

[Krajzen]

Yeah, I also think I have seen Kabylia and Deccan once. So I'll delete them, Sharjah and Malta from the list.

 

[hashinshin]

York.

 

[PsysmicSound]

And Etruria and Lanfang won't be removed from the game, as they actually existed during the timeframe. I don't actually know this, but I'm assuming that Lancaster and York were originally supposed to be a two-tag method of representing the War of the Roses, so they weren't necessary once the current one-tag method was decided on. Etruria and Lanfang, despite being extremely unlikely to appear in the vast majority of games, are part of the historical setup for late start dates, which are seldom played, but so long as the developers maintain the ability to start on any day during the time period, they need to exist.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I have seen the following among that list show up during the course of ordinary play:

- Champassak
- Luang Prabang
- Banten
- Demak
- Malta
- Zunghar

Note that I have played very many games by now and most of these are in the 1-2 ever category (Banten being slightly more common in my case). These nations are typically created by nationalists under unusual circumstances.

In most games Marathas will never appear but due to the Marathi core situation between Bahmanis and Vijay you can engineer them to exist fast if desired using nationalists.

 

[PsysmicSound]

York.

York's already gone. The tag was recycled as Andhra, I think.

 

[hashinshin]

Beautiful York! Noooo!

 

[Secuter]

I've seen Zunghar actually. And, well, I usually don't pay alot of attention to what happens in asia etc.
But I'll add in a few more:
Normandy
Alencon
Estonia
Aquileia
Champagne
Guyenne
Toulouse
Tirol
Gotland
León
Galicia

All of these have a rather hard time appearing, as most of them are accepted cultures in their land, especially the french ones will rarely appear.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've seen Zunghar actually. And, well, I usually don't pay alot of attention to what happens in asia etc.
But I'll add in a few more:
Normandy
Alencon
Estonia
Aquileia
Champagne
Guyenne
Toulouse
Tirol
Gotland
León
Galicia

All of these have a rather hard time appearing, as most of them are accepted cultures in their land, especially the french ones will rarely appear.

Most of these guys start with cores (some of them are permanent cores) making them stock-standard vassal-feeders. I've even seen AI-AI wars cause Leon etc to get kicked out.

 

[PsysmicSound]

Khoshuud is a bit of a strange one, as it was a Mongol horde governing Tibet. There's no reason it couldn't be created by separatists of the right culture, but surely never in the historic location.

 

[Chlodio]

I've seen Zunghar actually. And, well, I usually don't pay alot of attention to what happens in asia etc.
But I'll add in a few more:
Normandy
Alencon
Estonia
Aquileia
Champagne
Guyenne
Toulouse
Tirol
Gotland
León
Galicia

All of these have a rather hard time appearing, as most of them are accepted cultures in their land, especially the french ones will rarely appear.

Most of them are primary tags and I've see most of them appear very often (especially Galicia and Estonia).

Tags that can't appear... There are many daimyos that exist, but cannot appear, most bother some tag that can't appear is old school Revolutionary France.

There are so many unused tags, I wish they would at least reuse one for Iceland.

 

[Secuter]

Most of them are primary tags and I've see most of them appear very often (especially Galicia and Estonia).

Tags that can't appear... There are many daimyos that exist, but cannot appear, most bother some tag that can't appear is old school Revolutionary France.

There are so many unused tags, I wish they would at least reuse one for Iceland.

I've never seen Leon appear all natural, but yes, they are a primary. Most of the french minors are not, though. Actually, it's only Provence, Guyenne and Normandy which are primary.

 

[PsysmicSound]

Most of them are primary tags and I've see most of them appear very often (especially Galicia and Estonia).

Tags that can't appear... There are many daimyos that exist, but cannot appear, most bother some tag that can't appear is old school Revolutionary France.

There are so many unused tags, I wish they would at least reuse one for Iceland.

I'm aware of six totally unused tags - Revolutionary France, Travancore, Deva Bengal, Taira, Fujiwara, and Tachibana. The rest, however rare they might be, are all technically possible to appear. As for how many fitting new tags can replace them, there's far more than six, to be sure. The other day I listed about twenty without trying particularly hard, and that was only those which wouldn't require new cultures or changes to province layout.

 

[PsysmicSound]

I've never seen Leon appear all natural, but yes, they are a primary. Most of the french minors are not, though. Actually, it's only Provence, Guyenne and Normandy which are primary.

And Toulouse.

 

[Secuter]

And Toulouse.

Toulouse is not primary, the Occitan culture is primary to Provence.

 

[spyroware1]

And Etruria and Lanfang won't be removed from the game, as they actually existed during the timeframe. I don't actually know this, but I'm assuming that Lancaster and York were originally supposed to be a two-tag method of representing the War of the Roses, so they weren't necessary once the current one-tag method was decided on. Etruria and Lanfang, despite being extremely unlikely to appear in the vast majority of games, are part of the historical setup for late start dates, which are seldom played, but so long as the developers maintain the ability to start on any day during the time period, they need to exist.

TBH Etruria, Italy, Westphalia etc can now be represented as client states instead of occupying distinct tags. From my understanding during the last half year, the Devs would rather not include new tags in the game atm. Florence was added after intense lobbying by using the Lancaster tag. So at least for Etruria since it was a client state itself I don't see how just because it "existed" historically it should occupy precious tag estate.

And I'd rather have an Iron Crown Italy as well for the Italians, rather than Client State Italy with Napoleonic Insignia etc.

I'm very surprised that Indochina has so many tags.

 

[AurochsAway]

I imagine Malta can show up from time to time, as it's the only tag with Maltese as primary culture, so any revolters would defect to them once Sicily loses its core on the island.

The Knights have Maltese as a primary culture. I've seen them pop up on Malta.

 

[grommile]

I've never seen Leon appear all natural,

In my current Ottomans game, I have seen AI-AI peace treaties release not only Leon, but also a full-size Styria (the latter in, um, 1459).