So, what happened to SP AT? Why is it gone?

[Alexander Seil]

Everything is there, according to the diary, except for self-propelled anti-tank brigade! What is up with that? It was in HoI2 I want my Jagdtigers

EDIT: Unless they're supposed to completely replace the regular AT brigades eventually...but I somehow doubt that. Plus what if I want both?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

They renamed it to Tank Destroyer

 

[Alexander Seil]

You're my hero now Yeah, I just spotted that too. Can't believe I haven't spotted it before.

 

[The Starfox]

Well if we really wanted to get technical SP AT and tank destroyer arnt the same thing. SP AT were vehicles that had thin armor and were opened on the top and the back. They quite literally were anti tank guns on their normal field carriges (with the wheels removed), mounted on ontop of a tank hull with the turrent and superstructure hacked away and repalced with a thin gun shield.

Tank destroyers were the ones that were fully enclosed, and armored up vehicles, usually mounted guns that were designed for use in armored vehicles.

The distinction certainly is thin, but SP AT was much more of a defensive weapons, while tank destroyers were much more capable of offensive roles as well.

 

[GuderianTA]

your knowledge of AT weapons is quite interesting

 

[kstanb]

Tank destroyers were the ones that were fully enclosed, and armored up vehicles, usually mounted guns that were designed for use in armored vehicles.

That depends of which country build them, all US tank destroyers had an open-topped turret design.

Tank destroyers will be a very difficult category to model, so many differences between models and nationalities, from fast, light, turreted (unlike most tank destroyers of the day), armored US TD designs (M10, M18, M36) to the vast diversity of self-propelled guns, assault guns and TD that Germany and SU produced. Just compare the capabilities of an Elefant or a Jagdtiger vs a STUGIII or Marder

 

[Alexander Seil]

I don't see why an Elefant is that different from a Marder. They were both turretless designs, open-topped, with crappy armor. Sounds pretty similar to me.

EDIT: Or was Elefant not open-topped? Still, though...

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

Actually, the heavy SP AT like Elefant and Jadgtiger/panther had pretty good armor, at least in the front. One of the Elefant's main failing was a lack of machine gun, making it easy for soviet infantry to ambush/assault a tank, or run up and plant an AT grenade.

Germany's earlier SP AT, like the Marders, were lightly armored, and often open-topped.

 

[kstanb]

I don't see why an Elefant is that different from a Marder. They were both turretless designs, open-topped, with crappy armor. Sounds pretty similar to me.

EDIT: Or was Elefant not open-topped? Still, though...

The Elefant was heavily armored.

from wikipedia:
"Actual combat losses to direct Soviet action were very low as the Ferdinand's very thick armor protected it from almost all Soviet anti tank weaponry"

I will like to see how the new design templates makes it possible to model in one category (TD) so many diverse machines (self propelled guns, TD, and assault guns)

some were turreted (all US TD), some turretless (almost all others),

some had great speed (M18), some were quite slow (Elefant)

some were lighly armored (Panzerjäger I), some had very heavy armor (Jagdtiger)

and the list can go on...

 

[Cavalry Scout]

The Elefant was heavily armored.
the new design templates makes it possible to model in one category (TD) so many diverse machines (self propelled guns, TD, and assault guns)

Well, first of all, Johan has already stated the screenshots are all alphas and the data is not actual data but placeholders, so why anyone would consider them to be final is puzzling.

Secondly, to answer the question about how to model them its quite simple. Have a Heavy, Medium and Light SPAT Brigade.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I seriously doubt there will be more brigades added. The ones that exist right now are the same ones as in HoI2.

 

[sbr]

I didn't think there were "models" anymore.

 

[Alexander Seil]

Not specifically, but apparently there are individual components that are probably nation-specific (well, they probably have flavor names)? I'm not a big fan of that idea, but I can stomach it.

 

[The Starfox]

Im sure it will all probably be represented by the same brigade type for simplicity sake, though it was always weird to see the diferrent flavor listings bouncing between the 2 categories. Same thing happened with the assault guns getting thrown in with the sp art Was kinda've a pet peev for me but I understand the need for simplicity.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

Didnt the USA field armor divisions made up of tank destroyers rather than conventional turreted tanks?

 

[CCA]

You could just mod in SPAT if it bothers you that much...

 

[Bullfrog]

Didnt the USA field armor divisions made up of tank destroyers rather than conventional turreted tanks?

No. They used them with infantry quite often.

 

[Dark Scipio]

Actually, the heavy SP AT like Elefant and Jadgtiger/panther had pretty good armor, at least in the front. One of the Elefant's main failing was a lack of machine gun, making it easy for soviet infantry to ambush/assault a tank, or run up and plant an AT grenade.

Germany's earlier SP AT, like the Marders, were lightly armored, and often open-topped.

No, that was the Ferdinand. Ferdinand + MG = Elefant.

So the Germans had two or three different types ot AT Vehicles, all turretless:
- The heavies: Very think armour and enclosed (Jagdtiger, Jagdpanther, Elefant)
- The ex assualt guns: Medium armour and encloses (StuG III and IV, Jagdpanzer IV, Jadgpanzer 38(t) [Hetzer])
- The light ones: Low or no armour and open topped (Marders, Panzerjäger I, Nashorn)

Only the heavies were only late war. The others were produced from early war (Panzerjäger I, Marder I) to late war (Nashorn, Hetzer).

 

[unmerged(39280)]

Aren't Ferdinand and Elefant different names for the same design ?

 

[Von Biddulph]

Aren't Ferdinand and Elefant different names for the same design ?

Correct. Originally called Ferdinand (after Ferdinand Porsche) they were given the nickname Elefant which Hitler later made official.