So vehicles and tanks cannot into woods???

[Tank Girl]

I am fairly certain the iriszoom game-engine does not allow the modification of cover values on the maps during gameplay.

Carefull with comments like this. They could get you banned in EUGEN forums

This is my official oppinion:
Iriszoom engine is a perfectly designed, totaly stable and in no possible way limited engine of the far future which will bring you great joy without bluescreens, CTDs or subterran craters ever. It allows community based map creation, easy mod implementation and a plentitude of game lobby options for the host for your custom game convenience.

 

[facmanpob]

There's a lot of funny Hollywood-inspired myths about tanks. There's this notion that a tank is some sort of invincible off-road breaching machine that annihilates anything under its glorious treads.

The reality, especially for older WWII tanks, is honestly kind of pathetic by comparison. Tanks are notoriously susceptible to mechanical break-down and have massive maintenance requirements just to keep them running -- and that's in ideal conditions, not actual battlefield conditions. Now, it's true that tanks are relatively good off-road vehicles, for obvious design reasons, but not nearly as good as lots of people seem to think. "Off-road," for a tank, means grassy fields, hard-packed sand, gravel, and other relatively flat and unobstructed terrain, where tanks can drive quite well. Actual rough terrain with lots of uneven elevation, ground cover, rubble, trees, large rocks, or basically any obstacle whatsoever is a great place to drive a tank -- if your objective is to get your tank stuck in a ditch, permanently, with an entire track coming loose. Driving a tank into rough terrain is ludicrously stupid, despite what Hollywood-style imagery would have you believe.

Couldn't agree more!

Here's a photo of some bocage in the Cotentin peninsula. The smaller hedgerows (which are passable in the game) would be passable to some tracked vehicles, but the larger sections of woodland and bocage in the centre and along the road leading into the background would cause a tank to throw a track faster than you could say 'not good tank country'

 

[Tank Girl]

Yeah, again.
Its not about the hedgerows not having a negative impact. Its just sad that its a all or nothing decision.

I didnt like the in woods gameplay of Wargame:Red Dragon much, but that was mainly the larger forests. We are talking about forests here that are merely 10 trees deep, if even that.
And I am sure that there are ways to make terrain passable in no time with pioneers. Werent there special units that cleared paths with TNT and stuff?

 

[Max_Damage]

Oh please leave it as it is. Hedgegrows have added another dimension into the game, you need to mix it up with infantry to move across the bocages. You have very restricted movement for the vehicles and it makes you develop new strategies based on the facts that there are large movement obstructions on the map and limitations due to the fact road movement isnt always accessible.

These two facts make SD 44 maps wonderful in comparison to the previous games. Each map has its own character now.

 

[Fuchs303]

Let please keep the Hedgerows like it is and not give either side an advantage because to say only a Churchill can pass through it is nonsense. Tigers went though the Arden forest?

 

[Tank Girl]

I honestly have a hard time seeing maps having their own character. The available maps play exactly the same to me...

But I dont want to bury the child too early. Lets see how the game evolves...

 

[Graphic]

I honestly have a hard time seeing maps having their own character. The available maps play exactly the same to me...

I guess you missed the gigantic steel mill complex and river on Colombelles...

And then there's Carpiquet from the VIP beta.

 

[Tank Girl]

I guess you missed the gigantic steel mill complex and river on Colombelles...

And then there's Carpiquet from the VIP beta.

Hehe, i just get the feeling that compared to wargame maps the SD maps are very similar to each other. But well, there are only a few now so I will not judge from that alone.

Concerning the steel mill and the river: both city fights and river battles were gameplay hells in previous EUGEN titles and I tried to stay as far away from that as possible.
At least city blocks are a bit less messy in Steel Division. But they are still bad, especially when a row of 3 buildings only houses one infantry unit with no other buildings around so store another to help out...

 

[brn4meplz]

Speaking as someone who has worked with and around tanks. They are not fix all super machines. Every tool has its limits. Tanks are no different. Certain rocks and stones will cause an AFV to throw a track. thick foliage can do the same, a forest can restrict turret traverse.

From a gameplay perspective, limiting the routes of an armoured thrust emphasizes the strategic importance of roadways, transit hubs, and the defence of those points

 

[Lionel-Richie]

But infantry combat and city combat is different in SD44 than it was in the WARGAMES series...they put a lot more into it. Infantry aren't just something you shove in a building and they probably get murdered by napalm while you hope someone drives a tank too close, they kinda are the big push unit.

It sounds like you don't really even use infantry and just want to take your tanks everywhere, especially when you claim it "limits tactical decisions" when not allowing tanks to go EVERYWHERE creates depth and combined arms. Sure, they could allow tanks to move into the hedgerows, but while they're in there they move super slow, have horrible optics, and have a decent chance to throw a track and be out for the ENTIRE BATTLE...and that just wouldn't be a fun gameplay experience. It's better this way.

Plus we have only seen a few maps. You could have maps with "light woods" that tanks could pass through (yellow cover rather than green).

 

[UltimateIdiot]

Speaking as someone who has worked with and around tanks. They are not fix all super machines. Every tool has its limits. Tanks are no different. Certain rocks and stones will cause an AFV to throw a track. thick foliage can do the same, a forest can restrict turret traverse.

From a gameplay perspective, limiting the routes of an armoured thrust emphasizes the strategic importance of roadways, transit hubs, and the defence of those points

This. Although as an (ex) tank/IFV commander, I've to say their vulnerability to soft ground and foliage is overplayed here to the point where I get the impression some believe they can barely go off-road at all. They absolutely can. They can go through forests, it's not an impassable obstacle, it's just not very smart most of the time considering you can't traverse the turret, and can barely turn your hull so you're a sitting duck, and whatever wheeled vehicles you've with you are unable to follow.

But there is historical evidence that the bocage country was hell for tank-on-tank warfare, restricted movement heavily, and I think the game replicates that rather well. There's no reason to take it out. It also does a lot to help infantry-heavy decks, who've limited or worse armor, as they can concentrate it more and focus on fighting with infantry in the woods and hedgerows.