So vehicles and tanks cannot into woods???

[Tank Girl]

I know there were issues with the same in Wargame series, but the current implementation seems to be the worst of all possible solutions to me...

Waging war around tree lines and out of small forests was a big thing even back then afaik.
Now I just lose tanks because they stupidly evade the smallest almost invisible slopes and the edges of forests...

While in Wargame nearby city blocks made the pathfinding got nuts, now it seems to be forests....

Will this be changed later or is it meant to be like that?

And do you like it?

 

[faxx2]

I think it would be nice to have an option to breach a small tree line. I do like the fact that tanks cannot push through a whole forest tho.

 

[BCGaius]

Most of the tree-filled green cover are meant to be hedgerows, I think. Which was historically an absolute nightmare for full-fledged tanks to get through, much less other vehicles. It's not unreasonable to simply call it impassable for tanks and vehicles, especially since the game doesn't really model bogging down/breaking down, which is what would actually happen if you tried to drive through a hedgerow.

 

[Tank Girl]

Well, woods and hegderows could still slow down tanks. But making it impassable feels both unrealistic and bad from a gameplay perspective. It takes away a lot of options and as I mentioned, it makes tanks go stupid when close to hedges or trees. You virtually have to micro individual tanks nonstop now to prevent them from showing their flanks all the time...

 

[faxx2]

I understand but if one was going for historical accuracy, Infantry would have a hard time pushing through these hedgerows too.

But, I can see that for historical and mechanic reasons it would make sense just to prevent all vehicles from crossing (otherwise one would have to balance which vehicles could breach the hedgerows and which could not)

 

[Destraex]

Well, woods and hegderows could still slow down tanks. But making it impassable feels both unrealistic and bad from a gameplay perspective. It takes away a lot of options and as I mentioned, it makes tanks go stupid when close to hedges or trees. You virtually have to micro individual tanks nonstop now to prevent them from showing their flanks all the time...

Tank girl, I am not sure what woods are like in europe. But where I am in Australia their are more open woods, but mostly the bush is impassible to all vehicles unless a fire trail is present. Their are simply too many gradients, rocks and the trees are too closely placed together.

Hedgerows and tanks.... perhaps this game should have a breakthrough mechanic with dozer tanks. But if it had this then the germans would have to be able to make defences because they did not have dozer tanks. I guess both probably blasted their way through.

"Bulldozer Tanks An infantry battalion commander wrote fromNORMANDY: "The light and medium tank equipped with a bulldozer blade was successfully used to plow through the hedgerows, cutting openings through which the other tanks would file to fan out and cover the next field. The steep banks which line the roads would be cut down at predetermined crossing points.""
http://www.lonesentry.com/normandy_lessons/

Your not going through here with a tank,

 

[Tank Girl]

I dont see that this would be reasonable from a historic point of view, even the opposite.
I mean, tanks can also drive through most of the houses of that time...

Unknown quote: tankland is where a tank can go
And from what I read about tanks in wars, they can go to a lot of places really...

 

[BCGaius]

There's a lot of funny Hollywood-inspired myths about tanks. There's this notion that a tank is some sort of invincible off-road breaching machine that annihilates anything under its glorious treads.

The reality, especially for older WWII tanks, is honestly kind of pathetic by comparison. Tanks are notoriously susceptible to mechanical break-down and have massive maintenance requirements just to keep them running -- and that's in ideal conditions, not actual battlefield conditions. Now, it's true that tanks are relatively good off-road vehicles, for obvious design reasons, but not nearly as good as lots of people seem to think. "Off-road," for a tank, means grassy fields, hard-packed sand, gravel, and other relatively flat and unobstructed terrain, where tanks can drive quite well. Actual rough terrain with lots of uneven elevation, ground cover, rubble, trees, large rocks, or basically any obstacle whatsoever is a great place to drive a tank -- if your objective is to get your tank stuck in a ditch, permanently, with an entire track coming loose. Driving a tank into rough terrain is ludicrously stupid, despite what Hollywood-style imagery would have you believe.

 

[Graphic]

And do you like it?

It's great. In Wargame all you had to do to deal with infantry in woods was attack move a high HE tank through the woods.

 

[KattiValk]

I like having walls protecting my Shermans. It's the only way I don't get mugged by Panthers as it is.

 

[BrotherPedro]

Orchard is functionally the old Wargame forest for tank. You can only see out when you are on the edge.

 

[xFoXReaper]

I think it's better like this. In Wargame Red Dragon, there was an infestation of tanks in any kind of vegetation. I think the hedgerows add more gameplay, it creates bottlenecks so tanks can't just drive through and plow everything. You can set up ambushes for careless players that think tank spamming is the best strategy. In Red Dragon you couldn't do anything if 4 T-80 pushed through a forest... You would just expect your infantry not to die too quickly and hopefully slow them down.

 

[Vyllis]

You can go trough light forest, orchards, light bush/trees line.

But going trough Normandy hedgerow and dense forest ?
Not without edge breaching devices, and their usefulness during the campaign is still questioned by historians.
There was no way to get trough the thicker hedgerow without using engineers to get a way trough it.

I do like it because it is a source of cover and concealment, as it should be.

PS: your average tank is not going to have fun crushing a stone house, those are not Russian front farmer house. Too much Hollywood.

 

[KarampaFIN]

I agree with many comments here. It was annoying in WG series when a company sized group of tanks suddenly appeared out of a dense forest. There is no way you can cover that much ground with infantry and/or recon. Now with this system, I can reasonably set up my defences and then think where will I push with my tanks. I can't just go through a forest undetected by enemy AT guns, I have to actually think before I go. Their AT guns will most likely spot me first and get the first show before I get to do anything if I just Q-move across the open field. I like that a lot.

 

[Thonar]

German Leopard 1 testing videos about the "Obstacle Value of Woods for Tanks":
Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Now the Leopard 1 is a far more sophisticated vehicle, but it might help to get an impression.

 

[Destraex]

It's great. In Wargame all you had to do to deal with infantry in woods was attack move a high HE tank through the woods.

Agreed. Seeing T80s come over alpine peaks to attack infantry in red dragon was one of the more stupid things I have seen in my time.

 

[Destraex]

German Leopard 1 testing videos about the "Obstacle Value of Woods for Tanks":
Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Now the Leopard 1 is a far more sophisticated vehicle, but it might help to get an impression.

Why is this tank driving over young saplings?

 

[Destraex]

Churchill was the only tank I know of with the torque to go over hedgerows and this would have meant exposing it's belly. But going through large trees in older forests like the hurtgen... I have to read your sources for that! Please?

"Scots Guards Fighting Through the Bocage by Terence Cuneo.

Action of the right flank, 3rd Battalion Scots Guards during the advance from Caumont to Les Loges, Normandy, 30th July 1944. Commanding the Churchill tank, Lochinvar is Lt Robert Runcie later to become Archbishop of Canterbury."

 

[Tank Girl]

So the videos are kinda clear on tanks mobility in forests I think

I also saw a lot of similar videos on youtube with tanks breaking through vegetation without problems.
Most vids are more modern tanks, tho. But I clearly remember some WWII documentaries with footage of early german tank models from Pz. I to III moving through anything from forests to small rivers.

I mean, how will this evolve? Will we only have stupid open maps now? Seems kinda boring.
And what with future battles like the Ardennes. How will u simulate something like this when tanks cannot pass forrests?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

In RUSE, certain 'recon' units could go into forests and observe the surrounding area, or lay in ambush.

Can that not be done?