So, there's no "historical" way to westernize as Asian countries now?

[hhyy_best]

Haven't really tried yet, but if trade companies no longer enable westernization, the only options remain would be to get a colony in the new world or occupy a province in west europe.

before, at least there's a "historical" (role plying) way that wait until the western powers to open your door. Now that's gone. You have to actively go west to westernization......

Though not a that big issue, still feels that we are losing something important here

 

[kitemasaki]

The EU4 interpretation on how a nation can try to modernize falls short of anything inspiring from a developer's creativity.

While only a few nations modernized in such a way that you could call them almost westernized, its an ignorant assumption that most of powers in the world did not learn something from each other and use it in some aspect of their government & industries.
Westernization shouldn't be something that you have to 'trick' the system into making happen and it shouldn't be as imbecile as conquering a province and causing mass havoc on your nation for no justifiable reason. The Paradox team has done a really nice job in creating some interesting concepts in grand strategy, but this one is still one of their pitfalls of ingenuity.

Modernization, in a game way, should be able to be chosen in one of our 3 aspects of our 'governments' such as diplomacy, military and administration. Just like in real history, some nations modernized in different areas. It wasn't done by conquest either. It was through diplomatic, religious, scholarly and mercantile ways. There are so many mechanics in EU4 already that could use a more inspired approach to westernization using those historical aspects. The trigger for 'Western Arms Trade' should be one of those on that path.

Alas, the Paradox Team has tweaked with it a few times just adding more frustrating mechanics that make no sense whatsoever and ultimately fail in creating a fun game. While they have been able to update other areas to be more gaming fun, I don't have much hope for them being able to give this any effort. We will probably be stuck with this amateur version. Even if it was something rare in history, so is painting the map your color or creating a Castillian Canada. The point is that it should be an option the player can take and makes sense programming wise. I'd love to see them try to justify the design of this part of the game. It would be sad indeed.

 

[Squirrelloid]

Everyone and their mom is westernizing these days, so you can just wait for your neighbors to westernize.

Or you can conquer the trade company province that's bordering you, and westernize off their core.

 

[horngeek]

Haven't really tried yet, but if trade companies no longer enable westernization, the only options remain would be to get a colony in the new world or occupy a province in west europe.

before, at least there's a "historical" (role plying) way that wait until the western powers to open your door. Now that's gone. You have to actively go west to westernization......

Though not a that big issue, still feels that we are losing something important here

IIRC, there are actually very few examples of 'historical' westernisation happening in the EUIV time period, with only Russia and the Ottomans being are real example.

Note how they're both actually in Europe.

The big examples of 'historical' Westernisation actually happened in Victoria II's timeline, not EUIV's, IIRC.

 

[wingzero890]

IIRC, there are actually very few examples of 'historical' westernisation happening in the EUIV time period, with only Russia and the Ottomans being are real example.

Note how they're both actually in Europe.

The big examples of 'historical' Westernisation actually happened in Victoria II's timeline, not EUIV's, IIRC.

And like most things in Vic2, it's handled far better than Eu4.

 

[horngeek]

Mmmm... what I'm trying to get at is, it shouldn't be easy to westernise in the 'historical' way in EUIV, because in the timeframe, the only countries that westernised did so while fulfilling the criteria the game requires of you.

I'm not arguing that Victoria 2 doesn't handle this in a more nuanced way than EUIV- it does- but in many ways, EUIV's mechanics are more representative of the timeframe than equivalent mechanics would be for Vic2.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

Westernisation is ahistorical for Europa Universalis' timeline.

 

[Haldan]

I saw Ottomans tried to Westernize once.
They lost Bulgaria and Greece.

 

[Squirrelloid]

Westernisation is ahistorical for Europa Universalis' timeline.

That's okay, the only thing westernization fixes is also ahistorical, so... The root problem is that the game's model of technology is terrible.

Actual westernization involved updating the military, which westernization no longer does.

 

[Denkt]

It should maybe be renamed modernisation, because westernisation could mean making your culture more western.
However alot of countries did modernise during the time period.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

It should maybe be renamed modernisation, because westernisation could mean making your culture more western.
However alot of countries did modernise during the time period.

Modernisation is even more racist a term than westernised, so I hope not. You can only modernise out of date things, non-Western tactics are only out of date compared to western ones, therefore westernisation is the correct term.

Changing troop types and upgrading ships is 'modernisation'. Every time you research a tech that isn't ahead of time you've modernised.

Most Indian states did westernise their armies in this period, China and Japan westernised their firearm styles. But nobody westernised their government or goods production because really they didn't need to because they weren't behind. If anything the rise of a secular bureaucracy in Europe at the end of this period was a case of easternising.

The British Civil service has its origins in the east india company and was inspired by the Chinese system, but it mostly belongs to a later period.

 

[Kalderus]

Westernisation is ahistorical for Europa Universalis' timeline.

Care to tell me which nations were "historically" governed by a 377 year old, nearly-omniscient, supermind controller that could instantly give orders to armies on different sides of the world in 1821?

 

[AureliusBob]

Modernisation is even more racist a term than westernised, so I hope not. You can only modernise out of date things, non-Western tactics are only out of date compared to western ones, therefore westernisation is the correct term

racist? How are two processes that seek to improve the technological, social and political structure of a nation...racist?

 

[unmerged(603871)]

Modernisation is even more racist a term than westernised, so I hope not. You can only modernise out of date things, non-Western tactics are only out of date compared to western ones, therefore westernisation is the correct term.

lmao

 

[kitemasaki]

racist? How are two processes that seek to improve the technological, social and political structure of a nation...racist?

He has no clue what he is talking about so don't bother. Westernization and Modernization are two terms used in history (go to school) to describe advancements or changes during the later part of the timeframe EU4 takes place in. Has no racial undertones at all. The posters saying it isn't something that occured during this time are also in dire need of a refresher in facts.