So the Muscovy thread got me thinking: If France is #1, who is #2? And who is #3?

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Ceranai

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Going to weigh in here in favor of the ottomans, in my current game in 1.8 I have almost finished with the Mamelukes, need to integrate iraq, have eaten my way into the HRE with a sunni syria vassal and through hungary to touch poland. My only problem in game is that i cant individual peace poland and austria coz they are in the coalition together. I have had 50+ PP since my first war vs the Mamelukes and so I have always had monarch points to spare.

This is all before 1500, I now have 320 years to jump on france, eat my way through the HRE, carpet muscovy, eat castile and portugal and just generally chomp my way through asia. People underappreciate how good admin ideas are for ottoderps, with claims everywhere almost every province in the game costs me 10-40 admin points to core.

Im just waiting for the autonomy nerf atm, Ive tripled in size since game start and ive had one rebellion. Low autonomy isnt realy worth the revolt risk.#

Also PS on the castile screengrabs without a date your empire is almost meaningless, there is a huge difference between having an empire that big 200 years in and 300 years in. Without context all you have shown is that player controlled nations are OP.
 

Loke

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SP or MP? For SP

1. France
2. England
3. Ottomans
4. Austria
5. Burgundy (absurd this isn't topping more people's lists)
6. Castile
7. Poland
8. Muscovy
9. Denmark
10. Ming

Even more absurd having Denmark on top 10.... lol :blink:
 

Red John

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Even more absurd having Denmark on top 10.... lol :blink:

There are better nations, in my eyes, than Denmark, but it can be quite the contender. It has a fairly safe position and starts w/Scandinavia under it's belt.
 

Novacat

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5. Burgundy (absurd this isn't topping more people's lists)

The trade node changes in the last patch utterly screwed over Burgundy, imho. Lothrangia is no longer as strategic as it once was.
 

TheMeInTeam

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The trade node changes in the last patch utterly screwed over Burgundy, imho. Lothrangia is no longer as strategic as it once was.

It still has a tremendous tax base and alliance potential to run away.

Even more absurd having Denmark on top 10.... lol

They are a western nation with subjects built-in, AE free, that can dump on the HRE early. Who would you prefer to put there? OPMs with good ideas? Denmark's initial position is just stronger. I guess you could put a strong HRE elector like Bohemia there instead, or maybe Lithuania or Timurids.
 
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Ultrix Prime

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I honestly don't understand what we are ranking here.Countries with consistently high score in the hands of the AI ? Hardest to fight against as a player? Easier to play as? Cause the lists you people have posted change dramatically depending on the question with the golden exception of France being #1 no matter what.

As for the people ranking the Ottos #1.What are u smoking? They are strong.....just avoid Europe.Golfclap.....Japan #1....just avoid Europeans right?

Show #1 score in game with Japan. Until then, eh, whatever you've been smoking must be great. When starting from a position of ignorance, as you indicated was the case, probably not posting until you understand the topic is advisable.

What's being ranked is the country easiest to be #1 (that's called winning the game) in score.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Show #1 score in game with Japan. Until then, eh, whatever you've been smoking must be great. When starting from a position of ignorance, as you indicated was the case, probably not posting until you understand the topic is advisable.

What's being ranked is the country easiest to be #1 (that's called winning the game) in score.

It'd be a lot harder to find a nation a player CAN'T finish SP #1 in score with.
 
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Ultrix Prime

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It'd be a lot harder to find a nation a player CAN'T finish SP #1 in score with.

The question is not "whether" a nation can be #1.

The question is what nation is the easiest to win with thereby making that nation essentially the #1 nation to play if winning is your sole (heart and soul?) goal.
 

Hrayert

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France might be #1. But alot of you guys seem to forget Poland.

Poland: Freakishly powerful military ideas. Their morale bonus is just 5% shy of Élan. +33% cav CA. And now when they're a lucky nation i dont see them exploding into a sea of Ruthenian minors anymore.

And to be honest. If you let a country blob however they like they will become a pain in the ass sooner or later. France can be totally dismalted within 100 years by playing Burgundy/Austria/Spain. But i guess it's easier to rant the forum over how incredibly powerful France is rather than figuring out how to stop them.

And for people thinking England is the second most powerful country in the world. Are you insane?
 

Immortal88

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I find Castile is the second most powerful after France, if you immediately ally Aragon and declare war on Portugal and take the Azores and Canaries and burn that colony they have further down in Cape Verde (you need Exploration to get there) you've no competition when colonizing and you can take portugal in three bites long before they can colonize all your stuff. You'll have close to 100% trade power in your node easily. Then you colonize every damn island in the Carribean and you can steer all the trade passing through there towards your home node. Same goes for colonizing along Africa. Use that money to buy the best advisers and start chewing on France, especially if your royal marriage with Burgundy brought them an heir and they continue to exist, so you can make France your b.
 

Cynical Dreamer

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In my opinion, both France and Spain (united) are concurrently the most dangerous, powerfull nations in the world of EUIV (and arguably in the history of the 15th to 17th century in Europe).

In second, I would say Russia in late game, for it's huuuuge manpower.

Third Ottomans. Powerful, but with a steady decline throughout the game, and handicapped by it's reliance on naval power to keep the halves of it's empire united.

Fourth, Austria. I always finishes up dominating the HRE and represent a major foe for any European hegemon wannabe.

Fifth, either Brandenburg or Sweden. Depending on games, one or the other will probably emerge, and represents a formidable military threat due to discipline / events / ideas.

Many people have talked about Britain : care to elaborate ? Never bothered me in any of my games, and don't represent a major player, even in the colonial game.
 

FloatingOrb

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Great Brittain is a sleeper threat that somehow pulls through into the tops scores without really fighting any of it's neighbors. It has a huge naval force limit to allow trade dominance, is larger than you think, and has excellent events and ideas to colonize and expand into Asia.
 

zemuzil

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I find Castile is the second most powerful after France, if you immediately ally Aragon and declare war on Portugal and take the Azores and Canaries and burn that colony they have further down in Cape Verde (you need Exploration to get there) you've no competition when colonizing and you can take portugal in three bites long before they can colonize all your stuff. You'll have close to 100% trade power in your node easily. Then you colonize every damn island in the Carribean and you can steer all the trade passing through there towards your home node. Same goes for colonizing along Africa. Use that money to buy the best advisers and start chewing on France, especially if your royal marriage with Burgundy brought them an heir and they continue to exist, so you can make France your b.
It all comes to good rulers in my game they were blessed with bad ones and are techs and national ideas behind they have like 3 exploration ideas only , no Iberian wedding neither even Brittany and Norway have better presence in colonies
 

Denkt

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Income is the single most important thing to check, with few exeptions, if nation a has more income then nation b, then nation a is more powerful then nation b.
 

Florryworry

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I find Tuscany, Savoy and all the italian states in general to be really good. you have lots of options to expand and you get to form one of the strongest NI's in the game
 

Immortal88

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It all comes to good rulers in my game they were blessed with bad ones and are techs and national ideas behind they have like 3 exploration ideas only , no Iberian wedding neither even Brittany and Norway have better presence in colonies

Granted luck is always a big factor, in my Spain game I've been having average (sum of 9) to slightly above average rulers with one terribly poor exception that thankfully died soon. The Iberian wedding event did not fire for me this time, but Aragon ended up in a PU with me nonetheless and in 1540 or so I finally managed to manually integrate them right alongside with Napoli. Burgundy is still alive too thanks to my royal marriage and together we devastate France once every blue moon. :rolleyes: