So since I won all my local wars...

[Prince Silvermane]

Pacifism is now a huge faction in my empire as it's been 'a long period of peace' despite militaristic being my empire's Ethos. Even bigger than Militaristic when I try to suppress them.

Why would my empire built on wars suddenly everyone want peace?

 

[Gamarasa]

Pacifism is now a huge faction in my empire as it's been 'a long period of peace' despite militaristic being my empire's Ethos. Even bigger than Militaristic when I try to suppress them.

Why would my empire built on wars suddenly everyone want peace?

Maybe they're tired of constant losses and warfare? You said you didn't have a war for a long time, so they got used to the peaceful state.

 

[RupertTheBear]

I also find it very hard to get rid of pacifism, especially after having embraced it and Not being able to declare wars - because pacifism.
I hate it. Will never do that again.

 

[essi2]

Pacifism breeds more pacifism, pretty clear cut.

Use Empire Ethics Attraction buffs and maybe skirmishing with random empires to counter pacifist build up.

 

[buhite2]

Yeah, I'm having trouble killing pacifism too, I've declared wars to reduce attraction, supressed it, reeducated major centers of the movement, and have a nationwide information quarentine, but nothing seems to be pushing attraction to zero. Chain warring won't be an option forever either.

I think it would make more sense for them to reverse the attraction modifiers so being at war a lot gave a sort of war exaustion like attraction to pacifism, and being at peace too long bred restlessness and made people forget the costs of war (hence increasing militarism). I think it would make both playstyles more engaging and sometimes more challanging.

 

[essi2]

More improvements to the ethics system are needed, and Fanatic Militarists playing more like the Norse/Germanic in CK2 would probably be a step in right direction as far as diversifying playstyles.

 

[RupertTheBear]

It's also a bit silly that being rich and having strat resources feeds pacifism. It might be sensible on the logic side of things (what do we fight for?), but it automatically leads to more pacifism in the later game. Is this WAD?

 

[thekaje]

I don't see the problem. To maintain a militaristic society, you have to keep waging wars. Look at Japan -- after a long period of militarism growing out of a warrior society, they were forced into constitutional pacifism and are now fiercely anti-war.

 

[RupertTheBear]

The problem is player choice?

Edit: also, in a binary system, one being the 'default' Is Not a good idea if both are supposed to be viable.

 

[thekaje]

The problem is player choice?

Huh?

 

[buhite2]

I don't see the problem. To maintain a militaristic society, you have to keep waging wars. Look at Japan -- after a long period of militarism growing out of a warrior society, they were forced into constitutional pacifism and are now fiercely anti-war.

As made evident by repeated attempts to repeal or neuter article 9, and gradual military buildup under the banner of "collective self defense."

Plus that'd be more like embracing pacifism as an ethos, rather than just having prolonged peace.

 

[thekaje]

As made evident by repeated attempted to repeal or neuter article 9, and gradual military buildup under the banner of "collective self defense."

Plus that'd be more like embracing pacifism as an ethos, rather than just having prolonged peace.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/10/31...out-domestic-economy/pg_10-31-16_japan-00-04/

I've lived in Japan for 10 years now. The abortive attempts of the current administration to reinterpret the constitution to allow Japan to engage in limited military cooperation with the likes of America have been wildly unpopular. There have been massive demonstrations throughout the country. All this over opposition to the idea of reinterpreting the constitution to allow Japan to join America in military escapades. Now that's pacifism.

In game terms, your argument shows that the game is working perfectly. The player (Abe administration) is trying to be more militaristic, but the people (now deeply pacifist) oppose it.

 

[Carl_Bar]

I don't see the problem. To maintain a militaristic society, you have to keep waging wars. Look at Japan -- after a long period of militarism growing out of a warrior society, they were forced into constitutional pacifism and are now fiercely anti-war.

Except pacifism is the only ethic thats this out of control. To keep it down you need to be nearly constantly at war, there's all kinds of situations where thats 100% unviable. Currently i'm in the process of having to go on a massive economy growth spurt to support building up to fight 2 different awakeneds and between them and someone i want to keep friendly, (because they're the only think scaring the FE into hiding in it's own borders, (it keeps warring, them then staying in home systems, then white peacing). Thats going to be probably a century of buildup before i'm ready at this rate.

I should also point out IRL that a number of regimes that rarely if ever get into actual wars have strong militaristic bents to them. Militarism isn't restricted to people who fight all the time. Just a strong perceived threat or even somtimes a natural tendency that way will do it. Japan is very much the exception that proves the rule, not the rule itself.

 

[thekaje]

So a century without war and you think your people shouldn't become more pacifist in that time? I dunno - I think you should be viewing it as a strategic challenge. Work on your propaganda a bit more.

 

[Prince Silvermane]

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/10/31...out-domestic-economy/pg_10-31-16_japan-00-04/

I've lived in Japan for 10 years now. The abortive attempts of the current administration to reinterpret the constitution to allow Japan to engage in limited military cooperation with the likes of America have been wildly unpopular. There have been massive demonstrations throughout the country. All this over opposition to the idea of reinterpreting the constitution to allow Japan to join America in military escapades. Now that's pacifism.

The political climate of Japan is quite different to my situation. For one it would be like if Germany conquered Europe then just... stopped. And embraced Pacifism despite conquering their neighbors and neighbors neighbors. In Japan their pacifism came out of just how their treaty was written after WW2.

Except pacifism is the only ethic thats this out of control. To keep it down you need to be nearly constantly at war, there's all kinds of situations where thats 100% unviable. Currently i'm in the process of having to go on a massive economy growth spurt to support building up to fight 2 different awakeneds and between them and someone i want to keep friendly, (because they're the only think scaring the FE into hiding in it's own borders, (it keeps warring, them then staying in home systems, then white peacing). Thats goign to be probably a centuary of buildup before i'm ready at this rate.

It IS out of control. Even a warlike race isn't going to be at war constantly. A lot of what goes into war is build up. Most of my Civics and policies are all Militaristic too. AND I'm spiritualist on top of that so they should be more likely to adopt the empire's policy.

 

[RupertTheBear]

Which makes sense in a democracy, but not in a dictatorship. It's okay if the people want Peace, but if mad kind Dumbnut III wants to go to war, he should be able to. And then he should have trouble with violent pacifist uprisings!