So.......sector AI.......

[TandooriChicken]

I can think of several ways to make this problem better:

1) Make sectors optional. People who like them can use them, people who don't aren't penalized.
2) Flesh out the sector control options. Allow the player to modify the generic build scripts associated with each sector focus in game.
3) Improve the sector AI
4) Eliminate sectors entirely. Replace them with planetary build automations (for those players who don't want the micro burden of manual planet development), and introduce a corruption mechanic based on distance from capital to reflect the negative effect of "non-coreness" on production.

 

[Slynx]

4) Eliminate sectors entirely. Replace them with planetary build automations (for those players who don't want the micro burden of manual planet development), and introduce a corruption mechanic based on distance from capital to reflect the negative effect of "non-coreness" on production.

this idea is actually may be quite good. if you add an option for governors to reduce this effect. that'll make them usefull

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

4) Eliminate sectors entirely. Replace them with planetary build automations (for those players who don't want the micro burden of manual planet development), and introduce a corruption mechanic based on distance from capital to reflect the negative effect of "non-coreness" on production.

This would fix the problems of sectors, and is how many other 4x have addressed automation & diminishing returns on expansion.
However I suspect PI want to expand sectors as a mechanic; tie them into ethics and factions to make a proper internal politics system (similar in some ways to ck2).

 

[-Marauder-]

This would fix the problems of sectors, and is how many other 4x have addressed automation & diminishing returns on expansion.
However I suspect PI want to expand sectors as a mechanic; tie them into ethics and factions to make a proper internal politics system (similar in some ways to ck2).

Sectors were all along vastly different from vassals and the likes. They are not grown and old existing groups but randomly assigned zones existing at the leisure of the central government. Faster information exchange and travel fundamentally changed how governemnts and such worked.

If anything, with the optional massive increase to core planets and such. It feels more like they are slowly on the way out or at lest being increasingly diminished in importance. They were a nice idea, they didn't work and so far any attempts at fixing them didn't work all that great. Because it ignores that players overcome AI boni, multi tasking capability, all seeing etc by being more efficient, effective and productive. Which doesn't work all that great when you have a non cheating Ai tied to your leg with an additional 25% malus.

 

[TandooriChicken]

Truth be told, although the inefficiency of sectors irritates the min-maxer in me, I'd rather Paradox focus effort on adding more narrative content to the game than on futzing about with the sector issue. Not that these are mutually exclusive, I just think that the narrative side of it has such rich potential. That potential, fully exploited, might even be enough to surpass the greatest PC game of all time! (I refer, of course, to EU4!)

 

[thekaje]

Truth be told, although the inefficiency of sectors irritates the min-maxer in me, I'd rather Paradox focus effort on adding more narrative content to the game than on futzing about with the sector issue. Not that these are mutually exclusive, I just think that the narrative side of it has such rich potential. That potential, fully exploited, might even be enough to surpass the greatest PC game of all time! (I refer, of course, to EU4!)

Although I have tried EU4 several times and got bored into uninstallation each time, we agree on this! Sector AI should be "passable" but it's unreasonable to expect it to be good. They've added tools to minimize the damage it causes with things like "don't rework tiles," and I think they should just focus on adding more new stuff now.

 

[-Marauder-]

Although I have tried EU4 several times and got bored into uninstallation each time, we agree on this! Sector AI should be "passable" but it's unreasonable to expect it to be good. They've added tools to minimize the damage it causes with things like "don't rework tiles," and I think they should just focus on adding more new stuff now.

As soon as they give us an auto upgrade feature for core worlds and make sector AI optional. Sure! As long as one is REQUIRED to use it and it adds a 25% income mali, and divergence mali to punish the player for using it. Pretending it is actually beneficial. No. Just no. Then we cannot move on. Because as it stands right now it's to integral a game part to be ignored.

 

[TandooriChicken]

As soon as they give us an auto upgrade feature for core worlds and make sector AI optional. Sure! As long as one is REQUIRED to use it and it adds a 25% income mali, and divergence mali to punish the player for using it. Pretending it is actually beneficial. No. Just no. Then we cannot move on. Because as it stands right now it's to integral a game part to be ignored.

I don't like it, but I don't think it's that big a deal... I don't think it's beneficial, but I'd rather have more cool new stuff than a rework of a system that mildly annoys me. I know others feel much more strongly about it. I guess I am just a plain min-maxer and they are fanatical min-maxers!

It's not like this problem is unknown to the devs. They'll get around to fixing it eventually. Kinda like missile targeting, one hopes...

It's also not like one has to have all their planets at perfect efficiency to beat the AI, and if multiplayer is your thing, everyone is at least gimped in the same way.

 

[grommile]

1) Make sectors optional. People who like them can use them, people who don't aren't penalized.

That penalizes people who do like them - because if you sector a planet, you're sacrificing control of that planet to an agent that is stupider than you.

Which, is really, really, really, really unnecessary. The auto upgrade feature is in the game. We are merely not given access to it. Heck even an "upgrade all" button would work. A lot of the micro of planets is simply upgrading buildings. Which could be easily solved with an auto upgrade feature. Give the player a toggle to enable it so they could do stuff manually at first and switch it on later when they are comfortable with their resources.

If I'm comfortable enough with my resources to voluntarily trust an automated upgrade system, why do I care about upgrading?

 

[Sardonic]

As I posted in the other thread, sector AI is seriously killing my urge to play this right now. I'm in a big empire, and the sector AI refuses to build ANY research buildings, or develop my colonies more than a trickle:

http://imgur.com/a/TupOx
http://imgur.com/a/Kv4fF
http://imgur.com/a/88buU

The tech advancement costs added by sector planets isn't even close to offset by the sector's minuscule accidential research output. :/

 

[-Marauder-]

If I'm comfortable enough with my resources to voluntarily trust an automated upgrade system, why do I care about upgrading?

So when you have X planets, why do you keep colonizing. When you have X ships, why build more. Let's ignore how you effectively already trust a far more far reaching automated system one which you keep advocating for. Having "enough resources" to allow the AI to use them to upgrade buildings does not mean having enough resources in the long run to fill all your needs. Just at that point, where minor ammounts of crystals for building upgrades aren't much of a concern when a single battleship costs 20-30x as much.

 

[grommile]

So when you have X planets, why do you keep colonizing. When you have X ships, why build more. Let's ignore how you effectively already trust a far more far reaching automated system one which you keep advocating for.

I don't trust it; I fully expect it to do stupid things, because I know (a) it hasn't had all the bugs shaken out (b) even once it has had all the bugs shaken out it will contain deliberate design compromises because of performance or project management issues.

However, since I'm lazy and mod-averse (simple mods are generally either not interesting or not balanced, and this is certainly a point on which there would be balance problems arising; complex mods always seem to do something I fundamentally disagree with), I put up with it. It helps that I don't have to trust it with access to my imperial treasury to use it.

 

[SectorsAreOkay]

Sectors usually do okay for me. First of all, I do not put everything in one big sector. The AI doesn't seem to handle large sectors very well, but if you keep a sector down to 4-6 planets, the AI does a decent job of upgrading all the tiles. Secondly, you do need to keep the sector minerals stockpile up to around 2k. If the stockpile gets low, the sectors build more slowly. Thirdly, I occasionally find that the sectors get stuck, so recreating them fixes the problem. I also find that the AI does a decent job or eventually optimizing a sector for whatever I set it to. And it does build happiness buildings or special buildings as appropriate (e.g., xeno zoo).

That said, it's clear that sectors are not good for min-maxers. So for those people I think the answer is to just get a mod that increases core planets to something big and stop complaining on the forums. I think people also think that sectors solely exist to reduce micro, when in reality they exist to make running an empire harder, not easier. The game is supposed to be high-level. You aren't supposed to be controlling units and individual factories and such. They make some exceptions like being able to build mining stations and managing pops (which are still abstractions) so you have some sense of control. But in general, you don't have direct control. You are running a stellar empire of billions and billions of individuals. You set the direction for things, the broad policy, the big military actions, but you don't control everybody. Sectors are part of that philosophy. You just don't get to get a 100% efficient empire. Such a thing does not exist. If you want a game like that, either get some mods that give you more control in stellaris or play a different game.

 

[Bankipriel]

Which, is really, really, really, really unnecessary. The auto upgrade feature is in the game. We are merely not given access to it. Heck even an "upgrade all" button would work. A lot of the micro of planets is simply upgrading buildings. Which could be easily solved with an auto upgrade feature. Give the player a toggle to enable it so they could do stuff manually at first and switch it on later when they are comfortable with their resources.

a thousand times this

 

[insanebe]

Ck2 holding upgrades are incomparable.
In ck2 the AI can't build the wrong thing, it just builds in the wrong order.
Moreover holding improvements have no maintenance, they're strictly better.

Building the wrong improvements in Stellaris can be actively detrimental to your Civ; not only through maintenance, but also the increased unity costs, science costs & ethics divergence that ineffective pops cause.

......it is totally comparable the fact that in CK2 the AI CAN'T build the wrong thing is what i was comparing.
....would it be such a bad thing if the only thing that can be built on that betherariaiaananan stone (whatever it is ) is the special power plant and only the special power plant.

......also in CK2 you can step in and upgrade/build on the vassals holdings directly, can't do that with stellaris.