I understand that they needed a nerf, but really? Costing 3x as much retinue cap for half as many men is stupid. Paradox went overboard with this one.
- 1
So Retinues cost SIX times more!
- Thread starter Khezef
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Honestly, I think this way is better. They now feel like..retinues. IE a small, elite unit, as opposed to a modern standing army, like they were before. I think we just got too used to how retinues worked before now.
If they are to exist at all, they should be very expensive.
I've had this modded into my game for a long time, and I am glad to see Paradox agrees with that route.
Because, honestly, retinues pre-CM made the game a complete snowball simulator.
I've had this modded into my game for a long time, and I am glad to see Paradox agrees with that route.
Because, honestly, retinues pre-CM made the game a complete snowball simulator.
They should be expensive, certainly. But if the limiting factor is going to be money, shouldn't we at least be able to actually buy an army if we have the money? With retinues being so heavily limited on numbers there's no point in using them at all now. You get better value from mercenaries, and you can just magically raise them as needed.
Well, if they are so expensive and few, they should be actually GOOD, at least. Right now they're a waste of money.
And if you have enough income to buy and support retinues, you might as well just keep a mercenary company raised indefinitely. Or jump through a few hoops and vassalize yourself one.
Actually, retinues costing money is not only realistic to history (because, well, we don't exactly have food and shelter resources available to pay them with in this game, so money represents the upkeep to keep them fed armed and trained), but its also a good incentive to actually build up a solid core demesne and think for the long term. Because if you have better buildings and laws, you will get more taxes, and consequently retinues will seem more and more practical, especially when they can be used in unison with other troops sources such as mercenaries and holy orders when you have the funds to do so.
I prefer them being OP than useless. Paradox should find a middle ground..
People keep saying this, but I don't buy it. My retinue, containing a make-up of unit types I chose, costs around 22 ducats per year and is bigger than the largest existing mercenary band at the time, one which costs 19 ducats per month. That means that in one YEARS time, I pay a tad more than those dudes cost in a month. Yes, they cost more while reinforcing, but mercenaries cost to hire plus time to ready to the front. Meanwhile, my standing retinue can be strategically positioned to prepare for rebellions or incursions while discouraging would-be troublemakers, just by making my total troop count higher. Mercenaries can't do that either, unless you keep them around all the time (and then they get pricey).
I also don't find them to be "useless" either. They are just no longer the end-all of solutions. They have more limited utility now, but they sure as hell still have utility.
I'm totally fine with the changes they've introduced - except for the fact that I wish they'd make retinues more valuable for the ERE, to better simulate their Tagmata system somehow (maybe making it so that ERE vassals/Strategoi give -25% levies by default, while retinues are 25% cheaper and 25% bigger - I don't know, but something along those lines, I guess).
Unless you are English/Welsh.
They nerfed cataphraks hard but the Longbowmen still stomp over everything.
The recruitment cost of the retinues isn't so bad, but the replenishment cost seems a little overboard. I feel like the increased cost and reduced numbers should translate into survivability. The elite guard of my army should be able to endure more than the rank-and-file.
I don't get the whining about them actually. I currently have ~9k skirmish retinue which costs me a whooping 2,27 gold per month in upkeep. That's like...nothing. They do however cost quite a bit to replenish. But once fully replenished they are a cheap standing army you can bury under your regular troops. That way they won't take heavy losses and thus limit their replenishment cost.
Great change. Would keep.
Great change. Would keep.
Oh yeah, the system can still be easily exploited.
The replenish cost and time is a bit silly, however. Getting 6 troops a month on a troop totalling 2K takes...a while.
I still appreciate that the system requires conscious expolitation to be OP instead of something that was just... pretty much unavoidable OP if it was ever used in the first place, by AI and player alike.
I dont get the whining the whining, especially when certain people didnt bother even reading the OP. I am talking about the retinue cap cost, not the cash cost.
They're still good. They're no longer broken good, but once you can get a decent size retinue and you upgrade your cultural training building which also boost your retinues they're quite good. A bit annoying when you pay through your nose for 200 heavy infanry, but once you get 2k standing HI you can make a flank nasty in combat. By that time they no longer cost all that much either, and of course your levies are your fodder.
They're a more viable option late game, it's just in the 700's that makes them irrelevant
Even in the 800's and 900's they begin to get more powerful
Even in the 800's and 900's they begin to get more powerful