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So respeccing let's you level endlessly now?

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Victor Creed

Second Lieutenant
Nov 10, 2016
125
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I've been returning to Tyranny because of Bastard's Wound upcoming and because of many changes to the game respecced my char at Sunset Spire.

The first thing I noticed is XP in the mage skills count as combat, including Illusion and Life Magic.
So a respec basically allows you to gain XP in those skills again and boy do they level fast.
I was stuck at 70 xp before level 23 for a long time, now I leveled to 23 by just traveling while having the ring equipeed with curse enchant and casting vital body.
I then gained 700 xp by fighting 3 human mobs and 2 small bane mobs and level 24 will be easily gained.
(I also didn't pick Arrow Shield which I had previously, so my dodge will level, too, also I put a lot of xp fromj parry into Lore.)
 
Well, with this method it was possible to gain new levels even before the patch... Yes, you can redistribute the points, but this method will make you weaker in the end compared to the new scaled enemies because of the way xp works.
The key to make a strong character is the new training system...
 
Khaylon said:
Well, with this method it was possible to gain new levels even before the patch... Yes, you can redistribute the points, but this method will make you weaker in the end compared to the new scaled enemies because of the way xp works.
The key to make a strong character is the new training system...
Click to expand...
what's the new training system?
 
Victor Creed said:
Control Life and Illusion contributes zero to my character strength (I only use Illusion for buffs) how does this make me weaker?
Click to expand...
It makes you weaker compared to the scaled enemies because for each level your main skills will increase slower than for the enemies.
ComaPrison said:
what's the new training system?
Click to expand...
With the new system you won't lose your training points if you don't train each level and you can use them at higher levels when your main skills are much harder to increase.
 
I'm pretty sure I don't follow you at all Khaylon.
Is this a changed mechanic you're reffering to? (the scaling)
When you respec you take the xp out of useless skills and put them into your main damage, I increased my one-handed from 180ish to 200ish and no trainer I have could have increased my one-handed that high.
Also holding your trained skills for later levels is a bad idea for that very reason, you can't train higher than a set level for each skill, if you train late you might not be able to train at all. (unless you respec first. :eek:
 
Here's an example...

My lv42 char needs 4400xp to pass to the next level. He has also 400 ranks in 1h weapons and needs 10k xp to pass to the next rank. For the sake of simplicity let's say the xp needed for the next ranks is the same (in fact the xp needed increases with each rank) - i will have to gain over 110k xp in this skill to gain 11 more ranks which in return will make me pass to the next level (because 401+402+...+410>4400).

Now let's imagine I'm increasing a magic skill starting from 1... I will need to reach rank 94 in that skill to pass to the next level. At rank 93 you need 900xp to gain a new rank. To pass to the level 43 I had to gain 900*94/2=42k xp in that skill.

Both methods can make me gain 1 level but with the first method I needed 110k skill xp, while for the second I needed only 42k xp. Now if I take the xp from the magic skill and put it to my 1h skill it will make me gain only 4 ranks - and we talk about a single skill...

If you want to improve both parry and 1h with your method you will gain maybe 2 ranks in one and 3 ranks in the other for each level. In NG+ the enemies get around 5 ranks/level for all their skills and every 10 levels they will gain 20-30 more ranks in their skills than you - at high level they will finish by having higher accuracy/defenses and you will be weaker compared to them.

Of course if you don't plan to reach a high level with your character then it's no big deal...
 
So for gaining levels, the best way is still to respec and level a ton of different skills from as low of a starting point as possible? (assuming the difficulty of enemies is a non-factor)
 
I wasn't talking about NG+ and level 42.
As I said in my first post I returned after last having played shortly after this game released, back then you only could reach level 25 and even for that had to try very hard.
Also unless I'm totally confused your method includes respeccing, but all my post was about is the very same thing...
(And yes once again last time I played was several months ago, so maybe I'm just missing your point, thx anyway for clarifying you can gain even more xp combining this with holding your training, but this is totally unrelevant to my level 23 char who trained every level back before you even were allowed to hold your training. :))
 
Khaylon said:
Here's an example...

My lv42 char needs 4400xp to pass to the next level. He has also 400 ranks in 1h weapons and needs 10k xp to pass to the next rank. For the sake of simplicity let's say the xp needed for the next ranks is the same (in fact the xp needed increases with each rank) - i will have to gain over 110k xp in this skill to gain 11 more ranks which in return will make me pass to the next level (because 401+402+...+410>4400).

Now let's imagine I'm increasing a magic skill starting from 1... I will need to reach rank 94 in that skill to pass to the next level. At rank 93 you need 900xp to gain a new rank. To pass to the level 43 I had to gain 900*94/2=42k xp in that skill.

Both methods can make me gain 1 level but with the first method I needed 110k skill xp, while for the second I needed only 42k xp. Now if I take the xp from the magic skill and put it to my 1h skill it will make me gain only 4 ranks - and we talk about a single skill...

If you want to improve both parry and 1h with your method you will gain maybe 2 ranks in one and 3 ranks in the other for each level. In NG+ the enemies get around 5 ranks/level for all their skills and every 10 levels they will gain 20-30 more ranks in their skills than you - at high level they will finish by having higher accuracy/defenses and you will be weaker compared to them.

Of course if you don't plan to reach a high level with your character then it's no big deal...
Click to expand...

This just means that in your example, the specialized character will be significantly stronger than the one training a skill from the ground up, as he has earned way more experience per level. When you respec, he has 70k more experience to spread on skills. So, the best method for automatic level-ups would be to respec and put all of your experience into control life and lore (as they will be the only ones increasing) and keep casting vital body with the cursed piece of equipment. Also, your point about enemy levels doesn't make any sense: if you're at level 42 then leveling 93 ranks in some irrelevant magic skill you haven't used is just going to make you weaker than leveling your specialized skills.
 
Ultima_Ratio said:
This just means that in your example, the specialized character will be significantly stronger than the one training a skill from the ground up, as he has earned way more experience per level. When you respec, he has 70k more experience to spread on skills. So, the best method for automatic level-ups would be to respec and put all of your experience into control life and lore (as they will be the only ones increasing) and keep casting vital body with the cursed piece of equipment. Also, your point about enemy levels doesn't make any sense: if you're at level 42 then leveling 93 ranks in some irrelevant magic skill you haven't used is just going to make you weaker than leveling your specialized skills.
Click to expand...
I think you're a little confused because this is what I was explaining... But maybe you didn't read the entire thread...
Victor Creed said:
I wasn't talking about NG+ and level 42.
As I said in my first post I returned after last having played shortly after this game released, back then you only could reach level 25 and even for that had to try very hard.
Also unless I'm totally confused your method includes respeccing, but all my post was about is the very same thing...
(And yes once again last time I played was several months ago, so maybe I'm just missing your point, thx anyway for clarifying you can gain even more xp combining this with holding your training, but this is totally unrelevant to my level 23 char who trained every level back before you even were allowed to hold your training. :))
Click to expand...
Well, my posts weren't about you or your character, sorry if it looked like that... ;) It was addressed to all people who plan to reach high levels with their characters in NG+ while keeping them strong and why it's preferable to postpone their training until near the end of the game...
 
Khaylon said:
I think you're a little confused because this is what I was explaining... But maybe you didn't read the entire thread...

Well, my posts weren't about you or your character, sorry if it looked like that... ;) It was addressed to all people who plan to reach high levels with their characters in NG+ while keeping them strong and why it's preferable to postpone their training until near the end of the game...
Click to expand...
Huh, yeah, I kind of skimmed that one and made assumptions based on the later posts. Pardon me :oops:
 
Khaylon - So in NG one should train skills ASAP since there's a hard cap past which trainers can no longer grant you ranks (IIRC, that's 150 for master trainers); however in NG+ the hard cap is gone and you can train 5 ranks * your new levels gained in NG+ at any point no problem?

So, let's say my character in NG is specializing in 1H weapons and Parry. If I wanted to do some serious powergaming, I would get close to the level cap in NG, then every time I'm about to level up from 1H/Parry ranks, I would respec and put some of the 1H/Parry XP elsewhere. This way I could keep gaining ranks in those two skills until the end of NG. Right?

What's the best way to level up in NG+, though? I understand NG+ no longer has a level cap, so you can't exactly use the same trick?
 
AndreaColombo said:
Khaylon - So in NG one should train skills ASAP since there's a hard cap past which trainers can no longer grant you ranks (IIRC, that's 150 for master trainers); however in NG+ the hard cap is gone and you can train 5 ranks * your new levels gained in NG+ at any point no problem?

So, let's say my character in NG is specializing in 1H weapons and Parry. If I wanted to do some serious powergaming, I would get close to the level cap in NG, then every time I'm about to level up from 1H/Parry ranks, I would respec and put some of the 1H/Parry XP elsewhere. This way I could keep gaining ranks in those two skills until the end of NG. Right?

What's the best way to level up in NG+, though? I understand NG+ no longer has a level cap, so you can't exactly use the same trick?
Click to expand...

If you start a NG and you don't train at all you won't reach the cap even if you solo so you can keep your training points until the end. Also there are skills that require more xp than the others. Let's say you have 130 ranks in parry; if you respec and you put everything in lore instead, you'll reach only rank 100 maybe, and you can train further. Also you should always train the skills which require more xp and then redistribute the points into the other skills.

The training cap is increased with each NG+ by 150 and you will gain levels much slower anyway, thus you don't risk reaching the cap anymore...

A power gamer should do multiple quick NG+ runs because for each run you get:
- 2 free talents
- 5 free training points
- 9-10 free ranks in your main skills (background + mastery)
- 5 free trains for a skill from each companion (before training a skill you should of course respec and put all your xp in that skill)
- another couple of free skill trains throughout the game (Burning Library, etc)
- more artifacts/abilities unlocked
If you do the runs with only your main skills (attack/defense) unlocked you will gain 2-3 levels/run with mostly your attack skill improving (with high defense you don't get hit very often) and you can train lore (it gives the most xp) for another 20-25ranks (because you gain more levels after training). You can stop when you have all the offensive talents because after that your damage reached a cap...
 
So thinking about this a little, i realized you can use Khaylon's method even outside of NG+, if you just keep respeccing the skill you're gonna train.
I got from level 22 to 29.5, training 2 handed, since that was the skill with my highest xp.
I spent only a couple of hours on this char to get from level 1 to 22, while my main char is sitting at level 24 who I spent A LOT more time on, but once again that was before you could respecc or hold your training.

 
Khaylon said:
A power gamer should do multiple quick NG+ runs
Click to expand...

I'm a bit surprised you'd suggest this as I recall your saying enemy scaling makes runs beyond NG+ or NG++ at most pretty tedious?

Granted, lowering the difficulty from PotD may ameliorate the triteness of very high-level combat (and I don't usually play PotD anyway)...
 
AndreaColombo said:
I'm a bit surprised you'd suggest this as I recall your saying enemy scaling makes runs beyond NG+ or NG++ at most pretty tedious?

Granted, lowering the difficulty from PotD may ameliorate the triteness of very high-level combat (and I don't usually play PotD anyway)...
Click to expand...
Well, until lv50 with the damage and the armor penetration at your disposal you can still destroy everything in a matter of seconds. However if you play the game multiple times you gain skill ranks faster (because all the free ones + training you get) and you unlock the different goodies from NG+... Yes, I don't recommend going over lv50-60 because you start losing your edge. Gaining just xp for skills and never leveling up works too but it's just very tedious and you don't get more talents or attributes (and if you want 0% recovery you have to go to lv50+ anyway).
 
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