So many questions (Timurids walkthrough)

[zedyue]

during the prep to declare war, hover over the X or checkmark next to the selection box for bringing them in (beneath the war declaration reason area) to see why they will or wont join OFFENSIVE wars
depending on DLC, you need 10 favors or you need to promise them land

in DEFENSIVE wars, they usually join (large modifier to do so) but sometimes don't if they are having trouble or don't trust you anymore

edit: for wars
play on a slower speed, shift-consolidate regiments (don't consolidate completely) right before a battle because 1000 stacks fight better than 888 stacks. (regular consolidation deletes regiments) (non consolidated regiments reinforce faster but shift-consolidated regiments are stronger so do it a few days before battle)

try to avoid penalties by having generals with maneuver or by letting enemies attack YOU across rivers/into mountains etc.

Also keep stacks small enough to avoid attrition but close together so you can throw everything into a fight when it happens

 

[Fanstar1]

I learn nothing ... I attacked Sind when they were at war and was thinking I can pull this off, but my Infantry regiment was wiped right away and my horse stacks arn't enough. I think it's time for some loans... stupid me.
EDIT:
I had to release four nations ... ouch.

At least my allies joint in while at war. Don't know why. Maybe because I was loosing?

who was Sind allied to? unless you were distracted by rebels, I don't see how you would lose invading Sind as Timurids. by infantry regiment do you mean an EUIV regiment(one unit) or something else?

 

[kmh42]

during the prep to declare war, hover over the X or checkmark next to the selection box for bringing them in (beneath the war declaration reason area) to see why they will or wont join OFFENSIVE wars

I know this but what I didn't know is that a offensive war can turn into a defensive war. This is clearly a nice feature and one of this many things that make war so much harder than in CK2.

depending on DLC, you need 10 favors or you need to promise them land

I really should get The Cossacks expansion.

play on a slower speed

This is a good idea. Again my CK2 experience is in the way of an good EUIV game. In CK2 I play mostly on four or five and in EUIV on three.

shift-consolidate regiments (don't consolidate completely) right before a battle because 1000 stacks fight better than 888 stacks. (regular consolidation deletes regiments) (non consolidated regiments reinforce faster but shift-consolidated regiments are stronger so do it a few days before battle)

Didn't know that, thx.

try to avoid penalties by having generals

generals is something i not understand. I only have two generals and put the into charge, that's it. Not much to think about I guess?

by letting enemies attack YOU across rivers/into mountains etc.

Easier told than done. The AI never attacks me when they would lose and when I let them attack a smaller stacks they get devastated before reinforcement arrives. Persian provinces are bigger than in Europe and therefore stacks need longer to move.

Also keep stacks small enough to avoid attrition but close together so you can throw everything into a fight when it happens

I try but it's very hard for me to consolidate them in the right time. EUIV battle AI is better than I thought.

who was Sind allied to?

Delhi and Bahmanis.

Spoiler: Screenshot

by infantry regiment do you mean an EUIV regiment(one unit) or something else?

I meant my infantry stack.
My army consists of three stacks. 2x 10k Horse for battles and 1x 13k Inf + 2k canon for sieging. I was under the impression that as a nomad horse only stacks are superior (I got this information from here).
My force limit is 54 but I have no idea how I should pay so much troops. Are troops more important than advisors?

I don't know where to expand. All my neighbors are allied with each other and I have not enough resources to win against those.

 

[inreadible]

I haven't really played with hordes, but I have an understanding that with hordes you should try to fight on flat ground. I could be wrong though.

From the wiki under steppe hordes: 'Bonus +25% or penalty -25% to damage in the shock phase of combat depending on whether the terrain is flat.'

 

[kmh42]

I haven't really played with hordes, but I have an understanding that with hordes you should try to fight on flat ground. I could be wrong though.

From the wiki under steppe hordes: 'Bonus +25% or penalty -25% to damage in the shock phase of combat depending on whether the terrain is flat.'

Flat ground is rarely found in Persia:

Spoiler: Simple Terrain Screenshot

 

[inreadible]

Flat ground is rarely found in Persia:

Spoiler: Simple Terrain Screenshot

View attachment 219654

Yeah, I had a feeling it might be so. Unfortunately I can be of little help when it comes to Timurids and warfare. One thing I'm not sure if anyone said yet or if you know it already, but especially in the beginning of the game your general's shock pips are the most important ones in combat. If your general has 0 shock and the enemy has 6 shock general, you are most likely going to get beaten even if you had more and better troops.

 

[kmh42]

So, I recovered from my devastating lost and I am eager for revenge!
My situation:
I have 46k troops: 2x 13k horse stacks and 2x 9k Inf with 1k canons. And my Vassals have 7k troops.
With fully maintained troops I am barley making money (+0.26) but I can dismiss some advisors when I have too.
my allies won't join my offensive war.
Enemy situation:
Sind has 15k troos and is at war. It is only allied to Delhi right now.
Delhi has 32k troops and is also in a war.

Spoiler: Screenshots

Should I be able to pull this of? How should I place the generals? Is it a good idea to damage the troops and manpower of the enemy before I siege something down?
I stop playing till I know what to do and answer some upcoming questions.

 

[inreadible]

I assume you want to attack Sind, so first of all, who is Delhi at war with? If they seem like they are starting to lose that war, you can check the declare war interface when declaring war against Sind because Delhi might not even join if their current enemy sieges enough of their country or they have too much debt etc.
It would be optimal to get to attack only Sind and then I'm sure you will easily beat them.

If you have to attack them both, though, it seems that Delhi and Sind are both quite low on manpower so they are certainly weakened and already are relying on mercenaries which implies that hopefully their money situation isn't great either. You could wait until they start sieging one of your forts and attack them there, because (assuming you are on patch 1.18) you get the defender bonuses in combat when you attack an enemy whos sieging a fort you control. Same thing for other way around, if you start sieging their fort and they attack you there, you will get the penalties and will be more likely to lose the battle.

Edit: Oh, and about the generals. I would use the middle man, Ali Jahagir any time you siege something and keep the other two in armies that are involved in battles.

 

[Heindrich]

Should I be able to pull this of? How should I place the generals? Is it a good idea to damage the troops and manpower of the enemy before I siege something down?
I stop playing till I know what to do and answer some upcoming questions.

The short answer is "I think you'll be fine".

But the long answer requires answers to questions like:

1. What is your Mil Tech compared to your enemies?
2. How is your general compared to your enemies?

The key really is to seek decisive and favourable battles. So either attack on flat ground with overwhelming numbers, or defend in difficult terrain like mountains. One classic trick most EUIV players use at one point or other is to bait an enemy army with a smaller army of yours sitting in a mountain, when the enemy attacks and becomes movement locked, reinforce your army with another one, so you get to fight a big battle with big terrain advantages.

Regarding sieging... I don't necessarily wait to wipe out the enemy army before I siege, because sometimes if the AI calculates that it cannot beat your besieging army, it will just avoid battle and keep retreating, allowing you to take land without actually fighting bloody battles. In your case however, this is unlikely because you don't have overwhelming superiority, so I would probably focus on winning battles first.

 

[inreadible]

I took a couple example screenshots for you.

In the first one you can see that I want to declare war on Yemen, but they are allied to Warsangali. Luckily, they are already in another war and someone is occupying Warsangali, so they will not join the war if I attack Yemen now. Thus, I can take on Yemen alone and have an easy war!


In the second picture I wanted to know do the Ottomans have debt and if they do, how much. I don't think this information is anywhere else so I had to check who they are allied with. They are allied with Ryazan so I selected Ryazan and then declare war and from there I can check if Ottomans will join to help them. Unfortunately they would still join, but at least I learn that the Ottomans have almost 4000 ducats worth of loans.


So now you can check your game to see whether or not you wil have to fight them both, and do they have a lot of loans. If they are in big debt, they are most likely not doing very well and they will be of less resistance to you, at least after having lost a couple more battles.

 

[zedyue]

RE:generals

early game -> shock is good, fire is not relevant ( 0 1 0 0 is better than 1 0 0 0 ), with the reverse later once you start seeing more fire on units
maneuver -> more maneuver on a general lets you bypass terrain penalties like "attacking across a river" if your maneuver is higher than the enemy generals [ I THINK. LOOK THIS UP ]
siege -> more siege = faster siege

any general is better than no general. If enemy general is vastly superior to yours, (they have 2 4 4 1 and you have 1 0 1 0) then it may be worth it to reroll generals to get closer. 50 mil is expensive but you can lose a lot more if you lose every battle

 

[kmh42]

I assume you want to attack Sind, so first of all, who is Delhi at war with? If they seem like they are starting to lose that war, you can check the declare war interface when declaring war against Sind because Delhi might not even join if their current enemy sieges enough of their country or they have too much debt etc.
It would be optimal to get to attack only Sind and then I'm sure you will easily beat them.

In the second picture I wanted to know do the Ottomans have debt and if they do, how much. I don't think this information is anywhere else so I had to check who they are allied with. They are allied with Ryazan so I selected Ryazan and then declare war and from there I can check if Ottomans will join to help them. Unfortunately they would still join, but at least I learn that the Ottomans have almost 4000 ducats worth of loans.

The little Jaunpur get beaten up by Malwa and Delhi, and Sind is raping Riwa Kantha. Both easy wars for my enemies. They have no debt and will most likely not get in monetary problems. Same goes for their manpower I guess.

Spoiler

It would be optimal to get to attack only Sind and then I'm sure you will easily beat them.

In the first one you can see that I want to declare war on Yemen, but they are allied to Warsangali. Luckily, they are already in another war and someone is occupying Warsangali, so they will not join the war if I attack Yemen now. Thus, I can take on Yemen alone and have an easy war!

I am already happy that Sind has only Delhi as ally.

you get the defender bonuses in combat when you attack an enemy whos sieging a fort you control. Same thing for other way around, if you start sieging their fort and they attack you there, you will get the penalties and will be more likely to lose the battle.

Didn't know that, thx.

Oh, and about the generals. I would use the middle man, Ali Jahagir any time you siege something and keep the other two in armies that are involved in battles.

ok

What is your Mil Tech compared to your enemies?

any general is better than no general. If enemy general is vastly superior to yours, (they have 2 4 4 1 and you have 1 0 1 0) then it may be worth it to reroll generals to get closer. 50 mil is expensive but you can lose a lot more if you lose every battle

Spoiler: My Mil Tech

Spoiler: Sind Mil Tech and Generals

Spoiler: Delhi Mil Tech and Generals

One classic trick most EUIV players use at one point or other is to bait an enemy army with a smaller army of yours sitting in a mountain, when the enemy attacks and becomes movement locked, reinforce your army with another one, so you get to fight a big battle with big terrain advantages.

This is also a think in CK2 but I have a hard time using it in EUIV because stacks need so long into the next province and I have the feeling when a battle is about to be lost not even a reinforcement can help or it's too late.

Regarding sieging... I don't necessarily wait to wipe out the enemy army before I siege, because sometimes if the AI calculates that it cannot beat your besieging army, it will just avoid battle and keep retreating, allowing you to take land without actually fighting bloody battles. In your case however, this is unlikely because you don't have overwhelming superiority, so I would probably focus on winning battles first.

Should I siege with my full force or only with the minimum?

 

[zedyue]

You're mil tech 7 and they're 9 and 10? you're going to lose. You need to either get really strong allies or not attack them until you get closer to their tech.
they also have higher tier units than you I think. You'll fold like tissue paper

 

[inreadible]

As zedyue said, you're far too much behind on mil tech. I didn't even think of this earlier, but military technology is usually the one thing you will not want to be behind in, at least not behind anyone who borders you. If you are behind, you must not spend any military power in unnecessary things. No developing with mil points, only buying one or max two generals, no harsh treatment etc etc.

 

[kmh42]

You're mil tech 7 and they're 9 and 10? you're going to lose. You need to either get really strong allies or not attack them until you get closer to their tech.
they also have higher tier units than you I think. You'll fold like tissue paper

What! Really? Oh man... how do I catch up with mil tech? Invest in an lvl2 advisor I think.

you must not spend any military power in unnecessary things. No developing with mil points, only buying one or max two generals, no harsh treatment etc etc.

Oh I done that sometimes. The hardest part right now is not to start over this game.

 

[Heindrich]

The hardest part right now is not to start over this game.

There is no shame in restarting.

I always play on Ironman to prevent any temptation of savescumming when something goes wrong. But if things have already gone seriously wrong, there is no shame in restarting, especially given you are the Timurids, who have a pretty awkward situation at game start. In history the glory days of the empire were already past it in 1444, and the empire did crumble in the decades following before being reborn as the Mughals in 1526.

 

[kmh42]

There is no shame in restarting.

I always play on Ironman to prevent any temptation of savescumming when something goes wrong. But if things have already gone seriously wrong, there is no shame in restarting, especially given you are the Timurids, who have a pretty awkward situation at game start. In history the glory days of the empire were already past it in 1444, and the empire did crumble in the decades following before being reborn as the Mughals in 1526.

I already done it ^^

 

[zedyue]

Yes early game is CRUICIAL to keeping ahead or par with military tech. This is why you almost never lead with a military idea group for example, it keeps you behind in MIL. Especially for certain techs where you get an overall boost and a new unit type, (tech 12?) you always want to be the first to reach it or reach it with everyone else.

One thing to consider is to not tech up unless you are going to do something with it. Teching up late for the -5% or -10% bonus can save you points to spend on the NEXT tech up early! If you are about to declare war, tech mil and upgrade units and attack, if declared war on, tech up. Save otherwise may be a good option but save the points too, don't spend on other things. You may be able to keep advantage this way. If you watch some @DDRJake videos on youtube you will see that often he does not tech immediately upon a tech being avaliable, he only does so when he is near points cap or when he is about to actually get something immediately useful from a tech. In the short term, 30 adm/mil/dip might not mean much, but over the course of 50 techs that's an incredible amount of points that you can use on other things

 

[Heindrich]

One thing to consider is to not tech up unless you are going to do something with it. Teching up late for the -5% or -10% bonus can save you points to spend on the NEXT tech up early! If you are about to declare war, tech mil and upgrade units and attack, if declared war on, tech up. Save otherwise may be a good option but save the points too, don't spend on other things.

I like to be Ahead of Time on Admin and Diplo (so usually buy as soon as I got enough MPs) to get the substantial Production bonus and Trade Efficiency bonus, but there is no such bonuses for Mil Tech, so yeah it makes sense to make use of neighbour bonus for Mil Tech as much as possible unless you expect to be at war very shortly, in which case you should of course aim to be at least on par with your enemy.

Early wars against enemies with a Mil Tech advantage is brutal.

 

[kmh42]

Yes early game is CRUICIAL to keeping ahead or par with military tech. This is why you almost never lead with a military idea group for example, it keeps you behind in MIL. Especially for certain techs where you get an overall boost and a new unit type, (tech 12?) you always want to be the first to reach it or reach it with everyone else.

One thing to consider is to not tech up unless you are going to do something with it. Teching up late for the -5% or -10% bonus can save you points to spend on the NEXT tech up early! If you are about to declare war, tech mil and upgrade units and attack, if declared war on, tech up. Save otherwise may be a good option but save the points too, don't spend on other things. You may be able to keep advantage this way. If you watch some @DDRJake videos on youtube you will see that often he does not tech immediately upon a tech being avaliable, he only does so when he is near points cap or when he is about to actually get something immediately useful from a tech. In the short term, 30 adm/mil/dip might not mean much, but over the course of 50 techs that's an incredible amount of points that you can use on other things

Good to know. I was thinking the same about the institutions. I embraced it as soon I got the notification but maybe I should wait. Because it only makes tech cheaper it only makes sense when I am able to buy a tech. So the institution gets cheaper while I wait, right?

I just realized the guide on the Timurid's on the UI4wiki is a new one. It's not so detailed but integrates the new expansions, which i lack -.-

One more question, how bad is a unbalanced tech progression. I tend to fall back in Dip-tech because I often use vassalization and annexation of small neighbors.