So, it's Charlemagne

[Jacob Braughton]

Somebody doesn't know what they're talking about.

Before this becomes unnecessarily snarky - your criticism of Petrarch is?

 

[Gball]

What people have been asking for: cadet branch, "dark age", feudal overhaul, imperial overhauls (HRE, ERE), late game stuff, naval combat, hordes, steppe, et cetera.

Paradox's response: Grandfather of Europe.

You know, considering Charlemagne is the godfather of literally half the major cadet branches of Europe and the god damn creator of the HRE this might, and I am just guessing here, might have something to do with cadet branches and empire management.

Seriously, why does everyone assume this will be a simply fucking timeline expansion?

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

What we need is more late game focus and not early game. I hope this dlc will bring some reasons to continue to play after 200 years. I wonder how many people finished the game from the TOG startdate to the end without mods or using cheats.

*raises hand*

 

[Kanaric]

What we need is more late game focus and not early game. I hope this dlc will bring some reasons to continue to play after 200 years. I wonder how many people finished the game from the TOG startdate to the end without mods or using cheats.

Irrelevant. This isn't a game that requires you to play from start to end but from when you want to start to where you feel you are finished.

I've started 867 -> end in a few games to transfer to EU4. I've also started in the 1200s to the end. Started in 867 to the 1200s, etc.

 

[unmerged(250188)]

Before this becomes unnecessarily snarky - your criticism of Petrarch is?

?

 

[banci]

༼ つ◕_◕༽つ give charlemagne

 

[Jacob Braughton]

Scientific method is applied to history regularly when it comes to theories like the cause of the migration period or in archaeology.

Quick google of the term "Historical Sciences" reveals it's a deliberate trap of a term designed to be a straw man for creationists to attack the idea of science itself.

 

[Lancelot du lac]

No Frisians. "German" and "Italian" cultures. All Spain being friggin Germanic.

Yeah I agree, but it was already a problem (Italian and German as culture really means something not before the 19th century, what mean ''norse'' cluture exactly (or worst ''west african'' as religion'). But the gameplay regarding culture will not make sens without those kind of generalisation). Spain was entierly wisigoths at that time, before the muslim invasion, then I see no problem with that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths).

 

[DesNibelungen]

I guess in order to understand where you're coming from I'd need to understand what constitutes a dark age for you.

The term "Dark Ages" is commonly understood to refer to a specific historical era -- the early Middle Ages. If you try to use the term to refer to something else, expect confusion from your listeners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Middle_Ages

 

[Jacob Braughton]

?

Some guy on the internet says you didn't come up with the term dark ages.

 

[Kanaric]

The term "Dark Ages" is commonly understood to refer to a specific historical era -- the early Middle Ages. If you try to use the term to refer to something else, expect confusion from your listeners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Middle_Ages

So colloquial usage basically. I don't get the internet and refusal to accept colloquial language.

 

[ericyuen]

Why don't we start at 843...

Charlie is too strong. If it's start at 769, the bookmark may as imbalance as EU:Rome...

 

[zeress]

Such as?

That'd be a very long list my friend xD. Foremost to mind comes the very poorly implemented HRE and ERE. The Muslim decadence system was implemented and essentially abandoned until SoA. I could go on but these are my opinions on the matter and I can concede that the majority probably doesn't feel that way.

If you feel this way why are you playing the game still?

I don't play the base game anymore, ever, as I don't extract any fun at all from it un-modded. Well aside from testing out new features to plan on fleshing them out anyways. So I guess your answer is I don't. (please don't confuse this stance with some sort of veiled anger. Just stating my opinion)

 

[LumberKing]

Before this becomes unnecessarily snarky - your criticism of Petrarch is?

Everything. As much of a Romaphile I may be, I detest historical revisionism for the sake of anything that is not academic.

You know, considering Charlemagne is the godfather of literally half the major cadet branches of Europe and the god damn creator of the HRE this might, and I am just guessing here, might have something to do with cadet branches and empire management.

Seriously, why does everyone assume this will be a simply fucking timeline expansion?

Uhm... I'm not? I'm actually saying that the hypothetical response by Paradox actually answers all the various and scattered demands of the fans.

?

I love you though.

The term "Dark Ages" is commonly understood to refer to a specific historical era -- the early Middle Ages. If you try to use the term to refer to something else, expect confusion from your listeners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Middle_Ages

What he said.

 

[Slavicist]

Why don't we start at 843...

Charlie is too strong. If it's start at 769, the bookmark may as imbalance as EU:Rome...

The Franks of 768 aren't such a huge superpower then.

 

[Thure]

"Historical Sciences" as a term sounds suspect just on the face of it - not sure which part of the scientific method could ever be applied to history. What is an objective fact is that whole ideas of mathematics that were known the ancients were lost to Europe before the reconquista, Euclid's Elements having been entirely lost. Ideas which had been developed outside of Europe hadn't penetrated the continent until that period either. These are the works which were needed in order to approach many of the achievements in engineering which existed during the time of the Romans.

I guess in order to understand where you're coming from I'd need to understand what constitutes a dark age for you. Mine, as I posted above, pretty much hinges on the loss of knowledge needed to maintain large urban centers, expansive empires, and trade.

No... You are so wrong. And sorry, maybe it's my english. In Germany history an the university is Geschichtswissenschaft. I'Äm not sure how to translate it right... Academic history? I'm not sure. And Arabic math and numbers came to Europe around 1202 . Because of Fibonacci. Not because of reconquista. There was very much ancient knowledge at the middle ages. Trade was powerful in the middle ages too. And the most cities were larger in the late middle ages then in the renaissance.

Oh and you know... The abacus was still in use in the middle ages. Did you really thing they don't know math in the middle ages...? How did they trade then?

What you tell are the stories from the humanists who believe the whole middle ages had no knowledge and everything. This is so wrong.

Oh and: ' Although known in Byzantium, the Elements was lost to Western Europe until c. 1120, when the English monk Adelard of Bath translated it into Latin from an Arabic translation'

 

[Kanaric]

That'd be a very long list my friend xD. Foremost to mind comes the very poorly implemented HRE and ERE. The Muslim decadence system was implemented and essentially abandoned until SoA. I could go on but these are my opinions on the matter and I can concede that the majority probably doesn't feel that way.


I don't play the base game anymore, ever, as I don't extract any fun at all from it un-modded. Well aside from testing out new features to plan on fleshing them out anyways. So I guess your answer is I don't. (please don't confuse this stance with some sort of veiled anger. Just stating my opinion)

SOA adds college of cardinals, heresies becoming mainstream, and TONs of other features than just fixing earlier ones. The new features outweigh the fixed which which of course you don't need to pay for the DLC to get either. You do, however, have to pay to get the college of cardinals, playable muslims and pagans, india, etc.

 

[SovereignGrave]

Yeah I agree, but it was already a problem (Italian and German as culture really means something not before the 19th century, what mean ''Norse'' culture exactly (or worst ''West African'' as religion). But the gameplay regarding culture will not make sens without those kind of generalization). Spain was entirely Visigoths at that time, before the Muslim invasion, then I see no problem with that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths).

No, it was not entirely Visigoths. It was entirely ruled over by Visigoths, but the people themselves weren't the Germanic Goths. So either Paradox made the culture in Iberia ahistorical, or they're just using 'Visigoth' to refer to the non-Germanic people who lived there.

 

[zeress]

Geschichtswissenschaft.

Literally the Science(s) of History. You could say Academic History probably I can't recall the correct word right now if it's not that

 

[Jacob Braughton]

The term "Dark Ages" is commonly understood to refer to a specific historical era -- the early Middle Ages. If you try to use the term to refer to something else, expect confusion from your listeners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Middle_Ages

The Dark Ages has always been understood to also come with a specific set of criteria, any time or place that fits those criteria is said to be in a dark age.

For the sake of pointless wikipedia linking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)