So is the idea delayment basically another nerf for hordes?
- Thread starter toroltao
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It is a nerf to all nations that benefit greatly from an early idea slot, but yeah it generally hits the lower tech groups harder.
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It is, but it wasn't intended to be. We may have to look at a way of compensating for it depending on how hordes play out now.
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The nations harmed the most with this change are the Native Americans. It was painful enough scrounging up enough points to try to get to adm tech 4 for exploration ideas. Now we get to wait another 20 years to get to tech 5 instead. As if playing the Native American waiting game wasn't boring enough.
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I personally really dislike this change.
I haven't played with it yet, of course, so I don't really know how it will work out, but it seems like the entirety of the RotW will get hit with the nerf bat just so that Portugal and Castile will arrive in the americas a few years later.
IMO it would probably be better to tweak colonial range instead, that could delay Portugal/castile without increasing the boredom factor for everyone with a Tech Penalty.
I haven't played with it yet, of course, so I don't really know how it will work out, but it seems like the entirety of the RotW will get hit with the nerf bat just so that Portugal and Castile will arrive in the americas a few years later.
IMO it would probably be better to tweak colonial range instead, that could delay Portugal/castile without increasing the boredom factor for everyone with a Tech Penalty.
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Don't worry, this and many other problems will be fixed after a few hotfixes.
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they should just remove CoP from the steam store at this rate, the natives were already boring and are quickly becoming unplayable and nobody bothers with the random new world anyway
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Well to be honest, I think their lives WERE pretty boring when it came to intrigue, politics, economics and such on a grand international level like the game represents.
If this was a buffalo hunting game, then they would be the most exciting tech group to play as.
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Random should be replaced with map packs of plausible new worlds of different shapes.
In SP as a non western nation i put it on to nurf the iberians
In SP as a non western nation i put it on to nurf the iberians
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I spy with my little eye... one guy who doesn't know about North American Native history.
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Why not introduce ideas at tech level 3 - so every nation, no matter where in the world, can use one straight off the bat. BUT - introduce a scheme where certain ideas are only available in the 2nd slot (whether this be tech 6,7,8 etc).
This way, if you do want to give a nation (such as Portugal) and early bonus for exploration, it comes along as their 2nd national idea (so they get it if they complete their first idea slot) - but they'd have to work for it to get it - i.e. to sacrifice something else.
A scheme like this will also open up the possibilities of an 'idea tree' in future DLCS. It doesn't have to be over-complex - ideas can possibly come in pairs, with a third idea only unlocked if you have both of them. Using exploration as the example, it makes sense to ditch the 2nd colonist bonus (5th slot in the idea) and maybe replace it with 'reduce native aggression' (similar to the French national idea).
If combined with Maritime or Administrative (for example), you then open up Expansion - giving access to the additional colonist. This should even things out a bit and stop someone like Portugal eating the world up before the Netherlands gets a look in.
This way, if you do want to give a nation (such as Portugal) and early bonus for exploration, it comes along as their 2nd national idea (so they get it if they complete their first idea slot) - but they'd have to work for it to get it - i.e. to sacrifice something else.
A scheme like this will also open up the possibilities of an 'idea tree' in future DLCS. It doesn't have to be over-complex - ideas can possibly come in pairs, with a third idea only unlocked if you have both of them. Using exploration as the example, it makes sense to ditch the 2nd colonist bonus (5th slot in the idea) and maybe replace it with 'reduce native aggression' (similar to the French national idea).
If combined with Maritime or Administrative (for example), you then open up Expansion - giving access to the additional colonist. This should even things out a bit and stop someone like Portugal eating the world up before the Netherlands gets a look in.
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Oh enlighten me then. Tell me about events that compare with the HYW, Spanish Succession, Napoleon, Swedens path from the Kalmar Union to ruling the Baltic.
Their arts and sciences that compare with renaissance. Religious events spanning multiple nations like the reformation. Or how they colonized around the globe.
Seriously, I would like to know. Learning is always good.
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I mean why not balancing out like this, everything with muslim tech or higher first idea group on admin 5, and everybody else from indian to natives in NA at admin 4.
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I'm contrasting your "buffalo hunting" part. That came after the plagues, mostly, and not everywhere - North America, while more sparsely populated compared to Mesoamerica and the Andes, was hostme to complex sedentary civilization, of which very little remains.
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Wouldn't an easier solution have been making it so you can't take exploration as your first idea or giving it its own unlock date?.
A maybe equally good change for this problem than moving idea slot from level 4 to 5 would be changing the places for the colonist and the colonial range in exploration ideas. After all, is it just comon sense that the exploration comes before the colonists and not after. The new order would then be colonist as the third idea and range and explorers/qonquistadors as the two first. Something similar should then maybe be done to exspansion to.
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This is not an answer. Could you give some examples of what would have makes these civilizations so complex and interesting. As Draker asked some comparisons with European wars and politics.
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No. Draker said "buffalo hunters". I replied they were not. If you do not see how it is an acceptable reply, then I'm sorry.
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He asked for examples and so did I. Saying they're not something because you say they're not is not really a credible argument.
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