I noticed the Abbasid blob changed name so I wondered what happened. I will just put the following 2 pictures here.
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So, in muslim blobs even bastards can inherit?
- Thread starter Gans
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He may have been pushed through a faction or it could be one of ck2 innumerable bugs.
Definetly no faction, the title history says "inherited", not "installed by faction demand".
Children from concubines, harem or otherwise can inherit. There are no bastards in that way in the period's muslim culture I don't think.
Yes, but they don't get the bastard trait. This one definitely has the bastard trait.
IIRC, Muslims can't get the Bastard title. He's probably a convert.
In any case, Islamic Inheritance laws should not care much about bastards even if they have the trait.
In any case, Islamic Inheritance laws should not care much about bastards even if they have the trait.
Muslims can get the Bastard title, they just can't be legitimized. In my last Caliphate attempt, I aggressively sired bastards through Seduction focus, so that I would have 'cadet' houses to hold Counties/Duchies that were still Sayyid. At that point, they just get filtered into Turkish succession regardless. It can make it dangerous as a Muslim to use Seduction, but typically you've got 4 wives and a billion children anyways, so just wait for the first handful of kids to come out before you start visiting everyone else's sexy, sexy wives and courtiers.
Muslims CAN get the bastard trait if their mother was married to someone other than their father. This would likely be the result of seduction, and I do note that Way of Life is in play here and that the old goat was both Lustful and Arbirary.
My guess is that his two surviving brothers are also bastards (sisters don't count) - that's not clear from the screenies. I'm *fairly* certain that a legitimate son will trump an illegitimate one, and that legitimised ones trump acknowledged ones.
The previous Caliph died at 25, so all his kids must have been under 10. I had initially thought the new one might have got the nod by being landed, but a 10 year old bastard having a title is much more unlikely than him having two younger bastard brothers.
*Edit* Trumped by Ribbon while I was composing
My guess is that his two surviving brothers are also bastards (sisters don't count) - that's not clear from the screenies. I'm *fairly* certain that a legitimate son will trump an illegitimate one, and that legitimised ones trump acknowledged ones.
The previous Caliph died at 25, so all his kids must have been under 10. I had initially thought the new one might have got the nod by being landed, but a 10 year old bastard having a title is much more unlikely than him having two younger bastard brothers.
*Edit* Trumped by Ribbon while I was composing
I reported this as a bug yesterday. Seems that open succession doesn't play well with bastardy, seems not to be considering legitimacy in the equation of "highest-ranked heir inherits first, then follow primogeniture". I managed to break the succession of a county in Syria by landing a bastard son of the marzoban as the Satrap of Oman. Funnily enough the marzoban himself was a bastard off of an Abbasid cadet branch and had inherited his title from his legitimately born father.
One of his brothers is legitimate, the youngest is a bastard too.Muslims CAN get the bastard trait if their mother was married to someone other than their father. This would likely be the result of seduction, and I do note that Way of Life is in play here and that the old goat was both Lustful and Arbirary.
My guess is that his two surviving brothers are also bastards (sisters don't count) - that's not clear from the screenies. I'm *fairly* certain that a legitimate son will trump an illegitimate one, and that legitimised ones trump acknowledged ones.
The previous Caliph died at 25, so all his kids must have been under 10. I had initially thought the new one might have got the nod by being landed, but a 10 year old bastard having a title is much more unlikely than him having two younger bastard brothers.
*Edit* Trumped by Ribbon while I was composing
I'm fairly certain that bastardy isn't even considered at all in succession, just who was born first if titles held are equal.
That said, if you want to have cadets ruling everything so that your extended bloodline is in control of everything, while still avoiding the problems of landing your own family members since the changes to Decadence made that the Most Terrible Idea, bastardy is the way to go. Just sow those wild oats everywhere. That way, the bloodline of Muhammad will spread across the land as dignified rulers of men, while you avoid having to blast every single bit of your Piety out because all your dynasty members keep laying out the most terrible, insipid children and don't bother trying to correct their behavior themselves. I miss the old system, where you could throw your dynasty in high places and they'd help you police, but it made the already awkward Decadence mechanic nigh-useless, since you only needed to bother with decadent vassals, they'd root out their own courts just fine.
Of course, I had to save file edit quite a few times to get western heraldry for most of these, which is a shame but all considered, nearly every Sayyid dynasty in the world is within my borders. Even got a few Umayyads and Abbasids landed.
That said, if you want to have cadets ruling everything so that your extended bloodline is in control of everything, while still avoiding the problems of landing your own family members since the changes to Decadence made that the Most Terrible Idea, bastardy is the way to go. Just sow those wild oats everywhere. That way, the bloodline of Muhammad will spread across the land as dignified rulers of men, while you avoid having to blast every single bit of your Piety out because all your dynasty members keep laying out the most terrible, insipid children and don't bother trying to correct their behavior themselves. I miss the old system, where you could throw your dynasty in high places and they'd help you police, but it made the already awkward Decadence mechanic nigh-useless, since you only needed to bother with decadent vassals, they'd root out their own courts just fine.
Of course, I had to save file edit quite a few times to get western heraldry for most of these, which is a shame but all considered, nearly every Sayyid dynasty in the world is within my borders. Even got a few Umayyads and Abbasids landed.
Hmm... must be as Ribbon reported then - they go into the Turkish succession grinder with all the others, despite the tooltip (which is generic). He doesn't have any titles that his dad didn't have, but does have a strong claim to something. Possibly that was a title he did somehow inherit but has lost? Might be worth checking the succession list for that one.
Is there anything on the legitimate brother that might have affected his eligibility? I would have thought him being the same dynasty would have mattered.
That's a very interesting grab bag of traits, too. Wicked Caliph and Mujahid! Scarred, to boot. He's had a few adventures.
Edit: Here's a thought; what ages were the brothers when the old Caliph died? It's possible his younger siblings were all in utero when the old Caliph died, especially since one of them was another bastard.
Is there anything on the legitimate brother that might have affected his eligibility? I would have thought him being the same dynasty would have mattered.
That's a very interesting grab bag of traits, too. Wicked Caliph and Mujahid! Scarred, to boot. He's had a few adventures.
Edit: Here's a thought; what ages were the brothers when the old Caliph died? It's possible his younger siblings were all in utero when the old Caliph died, especially since one of them was another bastard.
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Here is the legitimate brother
That strong claim was probably a fabricated one, and the Caliph inherited it anyway by fallback, the owners branch died out.
That strong claim was probably a fabricated one, and the Caliph inherited it anyway by fallback, the owners branch died out.