So if we're really buffing Bavaria, can we take another look at their ideas?

[hashinshin]

Bavaria was not a global power, no, but they were a regional power. They lasted until the end of EU4 and in fact expanded steadily while ending up as a Kingdom at the end of the game. Their current idea groups are about at the power level of a doomed OPM in China.

Here's the problem, Bavaria has the following throwaway or useless ideas:

10% reduce inflation cost. (With no gold mines nor ability to colonize or any real way to build inflation this is pretty worthless. Worse yet is even if they DID have inflation this saves exactly 7.5 admin power per button press. Not exactly amazing.)
10% stability cost modifier. (The prime throwaway idea. Not the WORST throwaway idea but still just a filler for typically when countries have really good ideas otherwise like Prussia.
+5% imperial authority. (Considering Bavaria was never emperor nor to my knowledge ever truly aspired to be emperor this one just confuses me. Besides being almost entirely nonexisting to the point that Bavaria might as well not have an ambition it serves no historical sense.)

Three worthless ideas is just too much for a country that is supposed to be a regional power.

Bavaria has the following weak ideas:

10% cavalry combat. (The weakest of all the combat ideas, and not even a high number at that.)
+1 yearly legitimacy. (Makes sense historically, I suppose.)
+1 prestige. (Again makes sense historically, but couldn't this at least be +2?)

The rest of their ideas are average so I won't go in to them, but then the problem is they lack any STRONG ideas. Switzerland is pretty much stronger-Bavaria as is, and even Switzerland's ideas are pretty meh. Bavaria really needs it's ideas to reflect that during this time period it did a lot of infrastructure work, and did a lot of inheritance and political work. As of right now I just see no reason to ever play Bavaria which seems odds.

The HRE has always had the issue that regional powers simply aren't worth playing (with Austria, Bberg, and the Hansa stealing the show), but I think especially with Bavaria getting some work coming up that Paradox can look at their ideas again and make them worth playing. Maybe not good in say a competitive multiplayer setting, but maybe make it so picking Bavaria isn't pretty much the masochistic option even in single player.

 

[Gottskalk]

+5% imperial authority. (Considering Bavaria was never emperor nor to my knowledge ever truly aspired to be emperor this one just confuses me. Besides being almost entirely nonexisting to the point that Bavaria might as well not have an ambition it serves no historical sense.)

This is not correct really. House wittelsbach was very interested in becoming emperor for most of the empires lifetime but looking only at the duchy of bavaria we can find one example in the timeframe where a Bavarian lord actually became the emperor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_VII,_Holy_Roman_Emperor

 

[damifoe]

In fact Bavaria was once emporer: charles VII. from 1742-1745, the only not-habsburgian on the throne after 1437, so that idea seems ok to me.

But I agree that the bavarian ideas are too weak.

 

[Clownie]

Nitpick: +1 legitimacy is nothing to sneeze at, and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT +2 PRESTIGE?!?!?!?!

 

[hashinshin]

My bad then. I suppose at the very least we could make the imperial authority Austrian-styled and give it a secondary effect? Imperial authority on it's own (and such a small number at that) might as well not even be considered part of the idea set.

 

[hashinshin]

Nitpick: +1 legitimacy is nothing to sneeze at, and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT +2 PRESTIGE?!?!?!?!

Bavaria inherited many territories during their span in EU4. I think +2 prestige (since prestige effects dynasty shifting and inheritence chance) would be fair considering their lack of other good ideas.

 

[indika_tates]

Give Bavaria something different, interesting to play. Is one of the HRE majors that are pretty horrible. The only good thing Bavaria has is that they share dinasty with Denmark.

 

[IsadorBG]

Bavaria inherited many territories during their span in EU4. I think +2 prestige (since prestige effects dynasty shifting and inheritence chance) would be fair considering their lack of other good ideas.

The only country that I now of that has +2 prestige is byzantium and in ambition.

Even Spain and Japan only have +1 prestige so even if I agree that Bavaria should get a buff to its idea. The prestige one is fine.

 

[Jorlaan]

They really do have near useless ideas, I actually have been known to buff them a bit in my own game. I upped the cavalry combat to 15%, changed the inflation reduction to 15% infantry combat ability and the imperial authority to 10% tax. It is not a super powerful change but it does make them more useful. I am considering what else to do with the last one though, 10% tax was just a placeholder for me, I want something better but not sure what.

 

[Florryworry]

-10% stab is very strong. You stab up like at least a 50 may even be a 100 times in any playthrough, that -10% is saving you like 500 to 1000 admin points a playthrough. I'd take that over 'Elan!' any day. Simply because you can beat 'Elan!' After blobbing. Using the Admin points, You saved, With -10% stab cost.

 

[yerm]

I don't think they really need that much. Multiply the ambition, swap the inflation reduction for either dip rep or rel, and double the purity law... and I'd think they're reasonably set.

The problem is EVERYTHING is low number weak. A lot of bad or meh ideas doesn't do anything, but if you crank a few up a little bit they work. The big thing is either relations or reputation in the traditions, so they can be at some kind of a leg up in the diplomatic game, and a few little boosts to other places so that on the whole its a decent (even if not good) set.

 

[ceteris.paribus]

I completely agree with OP. Was always interested in playing Bavaria, but everytime I scroll over the NI's, I'm totally put off. If it had at least +1 DR taking the place of one of the weak ideas, like +5% IA, it would could help.

Bavaria has to have some to have some decent NI's to help fend off the nightmare of a neighbor called Austria. Every game I've played, I see Austria just rip it to shreads, save Munich to avoid AE hit from high base tax.

 

[matk]

I agree with OP - Bavarian ideas are pretty meh. I played a game with them and was left going 'that's it?' a lot. It was easier than a lot of OPMs in the HRE, but the ideas really lack any kick. The Papal Influence & missionary strength are nice if you go Counter-Reformation to stay Catholic.

Their rulers sucked too. Damn RNG...

My playthrough was only this successful (a relative term) because I was allied to France & a monster Poland w/ PU on Lithuania & Hungary. I was buddies with Austria for a long time until they decided I would be food. This is just a graphical mod that changes some country colours & TBARW + extras.

 

[matk]

While we're talking about Bavaria, why not change the lame colour? Bavaria should be a lovely blue colour, or even white (won't work with Austria). Not a weird pale grey/tan.

 

[jacobsighs]

While we're talking about Bavaria, why not change the lame colour? Bavaria should be a lovely blue colour, or even white (won't work with Austria). Not a weird pale grey/tan.

Nearby Hesse is that kind of blue. In many games I've played, Bavaria comes to border Hesse.

 

[matk]

Nearby Hesse is that kind of blue. In many games I've played, Bavaria comes to border Hesse.

What about the blue of Scotland from the above screenshot? It is quite close to the Bavarian blue from the flag, but not super close to the Hessian blue.

 

[hauptman]

If Bavaria got too much of a buff, it would become blobvaria. Bohemia is bad enough, we dont need another. They have a pretty high base tax at start, and in the players hands, their ideas are perfect.

If you dont take tirol in your first war, you did it wrong. So that inflation reduction cost is VERY useful.

-10 stab cost is leet yo. Stack it with religious and some wine and you save tons of points.

If you are a monarchy, in the empire, you better be striving to be emperor. So again, in the players hands, imperial authority is good.

Why do you think cav combat ability is bad? cavalry shred in the shock phase. Bavaria's do 10% more damage. CA is always good. Even for cavalry.

 

[lolada]

DIsagree because of +2 prestige, thats too much. But you are right, Bavarian traditions and Ambitions are weak. The rest of the ideas are ok, maybe a bit too average.

Traditions:
+10% Cavalry combat ability
-10% Reduce inflation cost

thats just weak, western cavalry is meh, and inflation cost is miniscule.

Ambitions: +5% Imperial authority

If this is ambition then it is no wonder they die in every game .

 

[ceteris.paribus]

If Bavaria got too much of a buff, it would become blobvaria. Bohemia is bad enough, we dont need another. They have a pretty high base tax at start, and in the players hands, their ideas are perfect.

If you dont take tirol in your first war, you did it wrong. So that inflation reduction cost is VERY useful.

-10 stab cost is leet yo. Stack it with religious and some wine and you save tons of points.

If you are a monarchy, in the empire, you better be striving to be emperor. So again, in the players hands, imperial authority is good.

Why do you think cav combat ability is bad? cavalry shred in the shock phase. Bavaria's do 10% more damage. CA is always good. Even for cavalry.

LOL I've seen Augsburg blob. In fact, Augsburg's Divine Ideas is a much better set that puts Bavaria's to shame. I think I may have seen 1 game in all my games where Bavaria was close to conquering almost all its cultural provinces. But Austria quickly made that short lived.

 

[Johan]

While they are a bit weak, saying that a +1 prestige idea is weak is not true. It means you will average about 10-20 prestige higher tjan those without it.

Inflation reduction and combat ability sucks though, so bavaria amongst others will be tweaked.