Unless I'm just forgetting there's a way to upgrade your unit group? but I don't think so.
So if I form the Mughals, I'll be trapped into an inferior unit group?
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Maybe you don't know this but the units have been balanced. In fact at some levels a certain group has superior troops.
I guess the way I put it was a little harsh, but to be forced to have less cav, good cav mind you, and still be out classed by europeans and muslims a good deal of the time, ehhh, not big on it.
Europeans perhaps. Muslims probably no because you may outclass them in tech and will throw manpower at them. Plus you can expand east freely - and once the biggies challange you, you're big enough to compete.
I did a short run yesterday for the "Die Please Die" achievement and held on to my bad ruler for way too long - so the opening was tough. As soon as you form the Mughals though, the road is rather smooth. Indian units are a lot better than before (if you have equal tech level of course).
I did a short run yesterday for the "Die Please Die" achievement and held on to my bad ruler for way too long - so the opening was tough. As soon as you form the Mughals though, the road is rather smooth. Indian units are a lot better than before (if you have equal tech level of course).
For most of the game, you're either one pip stronger or weaker than Europeans or Muslims, which isn't really a huge difference.
Doesnt western groups get a huge boost at lvl 30 when every1 else has lvl 26 units as best ones?
It evaporates in the face of cannons, generals, discipline and Morale. The pips won't be noticed in late game sp..
well if i remember right muslims have 140% in tech and indians have 150%, while nomads have about 175% so if u form mughal as timurids u get a -25% penalty and its good enough (that part was for the OP) but still u need a good ruler and/or good income (for advisors) to outrun the muslims in tech (assuming that they r not much ahead cos u had +35% penalty for being nomad before) but the manpower part is right, u will just go "human wave" at any enemy in most of the game if u r big enough.
AI blows points on random crap. You can keep in front of Muslim tech as Nomad tech simply by not spending MIL stupidly (in fact you can stay current in mil tech). Mughals should have no problems being current as they're rich to start and should get even richer quickly.
It's a bit of a shame to lose the cavalry ratio, but the ratio is not unlike Poland's (10% variance) who get the biggest in the game. Without that, going to Indian units wouldn't be a downgrade at all; Muslim units are more morale focused and are weak late-game in the fire phase, which is usually the dominant one with super artillery on everyone.
That said, it's probably still worth your time to westernize this patch. You can get vassals in China/steppes before you do it and feed them afterward (given the massive #claims in India and that you can use administrative ideas to reform, you'll probably core most of India directly at -75% cost).
It's a bit of a shame to lose the cavalry ratio, but the ratio is not unlike Poland's (10% variance) who get the biggest in the game. Without that, going to Indian units wouldn't be a downgrade at all; Muslim units are more morale focused and are weak late-game in the fire phase, which is usually the dominant one with super artillery on everyone.
That said, it's probably still worth your time to westernize this patch. You can get vassals in China/steppes before you do it and feed them afterward (given the massive #claims in India and that you can use administrative ideas to reform, you'll probably core most of India directly at -75% cost).
I wouldn't bother with westernization for the simple fact you are going to blob, and for the sake of argument you won't have any competition.
If you want muslim units, as an alternative play Uzbek. Form that weird named gold country and go to town.
If you want muslim units, as an alternative play Uzbek. Form that weird named gold country and go to town.
If you want Muslim units, you can just reform as Timurids and not form the Mughals also. The upside to Mughals is their ideas and claims on India, but Bukhara doesn't get that either. IIRC you don't have to reform for Bukhara though, so that's worth exploring I guess.
The 1.8 changes make expansion during westernization feasible, especially for blobbed nations with great advisors which might even make monarch point income as they go. Between giving out LA (rather than harsh treatment = military point cost in previous patches) and transfer occupation westernization isn't nearly the barrier to expansion it was in the previous patches, where you could do it but it was still an impediment. Now it's a nuisance that slows you down, but not terribly so.
It's pretty silly that you can't adopt western units though. Not like it would be without example in hisotry. To mention one: Nobunaga Oda had the upper hand over most of his enemies with successfully integrating riflemen into his armies.
Everyone in the game gets guns, other than nomad tech for no discernible reason whatsoever. Chinese tech for example caps out at 8 fire pips, with names that clearly suggest guns being employed
.Yeah, Bukahara that's it
They're pretty awesome for the fact they can reform in the 1500's really easily, and they keep horde traditions making them a powerhouse. hordeNI>mughals
There's no point in westernization. You're falling behind in tech just to catch back up when you shouldn't have a problem staying ahead in military tech. Hordes can get really great leaders by having no heir, so there's really no rush to reform until your military starts dragging and you can pull ahead with the new units. Westernization will slow you down one way or another even though it is easy to do.