So I tried playing Magicka 1....

[Van Silke]

....banning myself from almost entirety of exploits and the most poverful spells, generally trying to re-create restraints from Magicka 2.

And it vas a complete mess.

I found myself using Haste almost all the time, placing mines, desperately trying to heal up incoming damage, vhile feeling like I do nothing in return. I could barely fight after chapter 4, vhere Trolls vith instakills shoved up. I sincerely just gave up, dropped my restraints and steamrolled the rest of the levels vith better spells.

Magicka 1 had loads of useless spells, many spells that do more than nothing, some good, fev amazing and a handful of game vinners.

The main challenge vas to find the best spells....and use them over, and over again, until they stop vorking.

Here, in Magicka 2, the challenge seems to be different - it is not presented by finding the best spells, it is presented by the game itself.

"Learning to spell again" seems to actually refer to learning hov to use the entire system, instead of focusing on the gamebreaking tactics of the past.


Nov, ve all have to ask ourselves one question. Vhich of the belov:
1. Passing the game via finding the game vinning single or several combinations after quarters of experimentation (or just thanks to M60)
2. Passing the game via perfecting the usage of the entire repertoire of spells, and THEN realising game vinning combos

is more enjoyable, more challenging?

The only issue vith M2 system is thsn the most simple, obvious combinations remain the most poverful, vhile multi-elemental spells appear to suffer...but apart from that - I'd choose M2 and try to contribute to expanding it's balance and complexity as much as I can.

On the sidenote, it seems that even Developers of M1 vere avare of it's couple of exploits, because later on in DLC's the difficulty level vas so high that using all of it vas actually necessary.
Also, I've seen people complain about hov poverful some gear sets are combined vith certain tactics.
Hov is it any different from discovering QRESAR, or QFQFQFAS?

 

[Glomzubuk]

The main challenge vas to find the best spells....and use them over, and over again, until they stop vorking.

What i can tell you then, is that you don't know how to have fun in magicka 1.
You can also play a One Turn Kill decks in yugiho. That's broken, and it works almost everytime. Is it fun? No.

The point is, if one combo is broken and turns the game into "PressTheKeyInTheRightOrder Simulator", then just don't use it?
I still recommend the game to everyone I know, because what's more fun that trying a new combo into a fight to find that you surrounded yourself with mines BUT manage to put on the right ward while all your friends are dying from it? From my point of view, almost nothing.

The point in magicka 1 is the developers threw the elements to the players and let them do whatever THEY wanted with it.
It's a mess, and that's gooooood.

 

[Van Silke]

What i can tell you then, is that you don't know how to have fun in magicka 1.
You can also play a One Turn Kill decks in yugiho. That's broken, and it works almost everytime. Is it fun? No.

I somevhat undestand your point, despite almost never playing this card game. I used to have loads of cards, but I treated it more like a collecting hobby...
I have had lots of fun playing Magicka 1, so I suppose I knov hov to have fun in this game, thank you very much.

The point is, if one combo is broken and turns the game into "PressTheKeyInTheRightOrder Simulator", then just don't use it?
I still recommend the game to everyone I know, because what's more fun that trying a new combo into a fight to find that you surrounded yourself with mines BUT manage to put on the right ward while all your friends are dying from it? From my point of view, almost nothing.

My speech is not about "hov to have fun in Magicka 1". It's much more likely about pure facts about it's spellcasting system. And that's vhat I am comparing here.
As I said, original Magicka features loads of useless spells, and exponentially lover amounts of more poverful ones. And I am talking here from the perspective of a man, vho has had enough time to experiment vith M1's system for a very long time.
No trying nev combos, no experimentation, just you, the system you knov and understand perfectly, and horde of enemies. Understand nov?
And so I am not looking at it from the perspective of fun. I've had enough of it. No, i;m looking at it from the perspective of a challenge it throvs against players.

The point in magicka 1 is the developers threw the elements to the players and let them do whatever THEY wanted with it.

And that's perfectly fine. But, take a listen to this, some of M1's deaths feel even cheaper than M2's. Is it fun? Maybe. Is it fun vith only 2 lives, unless youbring a friend? Maybe for a short vhile.

It's a mess, and that's gooooood.

You have certainly misread my post here, if by "It's a mess" you are trying to refer to my experience. First of all, I've played both games alone to see hov it all vorks in different scenarios, second of all, I DID NOT TREAT IT AS MAGICKA 1.
After over 80 hours spent treating M1 as M1 I have a right to experiment.
So I've treated M1 as M2 and used all the spells accordingly, thus I did not use any overpovered spells, that vere possible due to old spellcasting system.
And it vas a mess, because it vas ludicrously difficult, not because I vas annoyed by chaos.

And my entire point vas that Magicka 2 took the very base of Magicka 1, removed all the overpovered spells and made it actually playable.

 

[Glomzubuk]

(I think my speech was a bit aggressive now that i reread it, especially the first point, and I'm sorry about that.
I'm not a native English speaker and i sometimes have difficulties to express my thoughts.
Please do not take offense for my words, even if they seems aggressive, they aren't, ask for precisions if needed )

About the second point, i honestly can't tell, i almost never played for the challenge, only for the fun. It is for me the main point of magicka 1.
And maybe magicka 2 is more about the challenge, i will need to look upon that the next time i open both games.

About the third point, i must admit that i didn't played much solo, so again, i can't really tell. But this time i won't test, as i believe that magicka 1 is a game made for multiplayer.
This is just more visible in magicka 2 as the game revolves around it.

And for the last point, i wasn't talking about your experience but about the game
The game is a mess, with unbalanced spells, with weak spells, with bugs, with insane multiplayer that incite player to kill themselves.
And that was this insanity that made the game an excellent one to me

To me magicka 2 is a toned down version with a way better engine that need refining, and i would totally have accepted it if it was a beta.

 

[Rayniac]

So what were these restrictions that you applied to your gameplay?

 

[purple wizard]

My speech is not about "hov to have fun in Magicka 1". It's much more likely about pure facts about it's spellcasting system. And that's vhat I am comparing here.
As I said, original Magicka features loads of useless spells, and exponentially lover amounts of more poverful ones. And I am talking here from the perspective of a man, vho has had enough time to experiment vith M1's system for a very long time.

After over 80 hours spent treating M1 as M1 I have a right to experiment.

>mfw

I have almost 1800 hours in the original Magicka and I still find out things I didn't know from time to time. I can safely say that you don't know as much about the game as you think you do.

 

[Van Silke]

I knov exactly as much as I think I do. Vhich is exactly as much as I knov. I haven't been playing around the game mechanics to catch every single nuance, but enough is enough.

Restrictions vere just using elements in equal amounts as in M2, for instance, should I conjure Steam, I am not going to have more than 2 slots of it in one spell. Other than that, not using lightning and death together...and other stuff.

 

[Rayniac]

Depending on the "other stuff" it's a piece of cake to play thgough M1 like that. Hell, the game can be cleared without casting a single magick as well (corporealize being the exception of course )

 

[Van Silke]

Vards being by default immunity auras are inevitable, but such things as rock armour - at longer run you're really going to feel the overkill damage piercing through these. Especially vhen you are not using 5x one, vhich is simply multiple times stronger than M2 one.

Plus, such nuances as almost complete inability to spam uncharged projectiles, lack of mobility...

 

[RancorSnp]

Plus, such nuances as almost complete inability to spam uncharged projectiles, lack of mobility...

1) After having played 26 hours in Magicka 2, I still find myself dieing more often due to the fact my charater is moving after I stopped holding the button, than it helped me (which actually only happened against one enemy in the game)
2) In order to spam uncharged projectiles, you needed to have items, which actually changed the gameplay in M1. Still even without it, inability to spam uncharged projectiles, is still better than not being able to use projectiles at all, unless you use cold wall and freeze enemy for 10 seconds.

Seriously, I never thought I will say this, but I am completely disapointed with Paradox. And the funniest thing is, I am not disapointed about how the game came out, I am disapointed by their reaction.
1) Receive negative feedback at sneak peak. 2) Do NOTHING assuring players it will make more sense in late game (nothing changes later) 3) Release the game 4) receive SAME negative feedback, for the SAME game. 5) Promise you will work it out. 6) Do COMPLETELY NOTHING with the issues pointed up, and pretend you do not see any posts.

Is that how a major company behaves towards their players? Stay under table sulking because it was not received well? ALL they had to do, is to release more artifacts, and truly game changing items and robes. And players would be satified, but instead they decided to forget they created this game.
Bah, they do not even NEED to create new items, they already designed PLENTY, like the item in Wizards of the square tablet that changes Rain magick to oil - Simple and BRILLIANT.

I will try making one last post, on how the game could be fixed, without reworking it's systems, since they apperently do not want to that for whatever reason. Probably will post it in a week or so, but truth be told I am sure they won't even read this.
Wouldn't be surprised if they just deleted Magicka 2 subforum -,-

 

[Argotha]

No. ALL they had to do was fix the fucking broken spell system.

 

[Dikharz]

No. ALL they had to do was fix the fucking broken spell system.

Please, the spell system in M1 is not broken. Not for the campaign and not for PvP either.
Its awesome, its fun and does exactly what it should do for playing the campaign. As for PvP, most of the spells are kills and all of those can be guarded against.

Your fellow fireball catcher,
Totalloss / Dikharz

 

[Argotha]

I was talking about M2