Game was slowing like a crawl , something like i never seen happened before . Then i noticed something odd everyone was in coalition versus vijayanagara. Everyone moving armies over there.. What happened there ?
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So i noticed my game was slowing down.. WTF happened there?!
- Thread starter Mortmal
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Game was slowing like a crawl , something like i never seen happened before . Then i noticed something odd everyone was in coalition versus vijayanagara. Everyone moving armies over there.. What happened there ?
I believe it’s a known bug specifically regarding Vijayanagara generating way too much AE somehow.
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They put a relative on the throne using favour interaction, this gives 20 AE to all known tags
Vij likes to ally its minor neighbours for some reason more than others and just keep them as allies
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That's pretty stupid. Why realms from far away would care about that?
Because it was the bandaid of balance
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Placing relative on throne causing AE at all is itself bugged. The words "aggressive" and "expansion" both mean something, and this interaction objectively does not match said meaning for any coherent definition of the terms.
EU 4 is violating both language and its own internal consistency to apply AE to using favors/subject interaction to place relatives on thrones. Not to mention that from a PU perspective, this is double-counting (since you still have to force the PU in most cases if you're not going to save scum like mad/otherwise cheat the RNG). From a vassal perspective, you already paid something to get the vassal...having it switch dynasty isn't relevant to expanding your borders except to get the small chance of inheritance...but increasing subject annexation efficiency does not otherwise add AE so again...internal inconsistency.
Having it ignore range is obviously bugged nonsense too, so this one is a two-in-one deal.
EU 4 is violating both language and its own internal consistency to apply AE to using favors/subject interaction to place relatives on thrones. Not to mention that from a PU perspective, this is double-counting (since you still have to force the PU in most cases if you're not going to save scum like mad/otherwise cheat the RNG). From a vassal perspective, you already paid something to get the vassal...having it switch dynasty isn't relevant to expanding your borders except to get the small chance of inheritance...but increasing subject annexation efficiency does not otherwise add AE so again...internal inconsistency.
Having it ignore range is obviously bugged nonsense too, so this one is a two-in-one deal.
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You are aggressively expanding by putting your dynasty on foreign thrones. The AE from this action shortly followed by a PU war will help a coalition to fire.
The issue is in the AE of it not being scaled but just flat 20
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Words have meaning in the English language, and that's not what "aggressive" or "expanding" mean.
If you actually subjugate the land, and it wasn't already your subject, it's a different story.
The lack of scaling and the lack of internal consistency are both issues.
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Words do have meaning, and if you look at my name, you might see that I could be English.
You're doing aggressive diplomacy, hence why 90 favours, a very tall number, is required. You only get the AE from this favours interaction, not from place relative on throne subject interaction.
The lack of scaling is the issue, internal consistency is kept.
Marking provinces as areas of vital interest causes decreased relations which means coalitions will fire more easily, but it is not actually taking the land, just telling your allies which lands you'll take in war
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The issue is not what it should be, but that Paradox would have probably caught this if somebody had played Leviathan a few times. I've heard about this a lot from different people, so it seems common enough. I honestly wonder how much of an issue a lack of resources and/or time is for the dev team
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Let's see some of that command of language then. Let's see that coherent definition of the terms that predicts the behavior as it's represented in EU 4 without violating internal consistency.
I'm confident you will fail, but I could be mistaken, and if I am there's an easy way to demonstrate if I am. This is a falsifiable claim, so if you believe it's false then show us.
You get more AE from not gaining territory through a diplomatic action that takes massive investment than you do from gaining territory through diplomatic action without massive investment, so internal consistency is not kept.
Placing relative on throne is also not "actually taking the land". And when you do actually take it (via force PU), you get AE.
The act of placing relative on the throne is not inherently aggressive. Declaring an imperialism war is inherently aggressive. One of these things gives AE, the other does not, but they are not what the term "aggressive expansion" predicts.
In the case of VJ they also lack the ability to form PUs. They are not aggressively expanding at all. They are roleplaying to make the dynasty mapmode look better.
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I dunno; deposing the current ruler and putting someone of your own family [Who totally isn't a puppet or anything] on the throne seems like a pretty aggressive way of expanding your dynastic influence to me.
Consider how it would look from the perspective of a third country.
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I don't have Leviathan so I will have to trust the wiki on this:
Request Relative as Heir - Spend 90 favors to give an heirless country an heir of your dynasty. Both the acting and target countries must be monarchies. However, it generates 20 AE penalty with every existing nation.
Giving an heir of your dynasty to an otherwise heirless country is not quite exactly the same as deposing the current ruler and installing a puppet on the throne as you claim.
Also you are using favors. You are basically asking nicely. And since you need a ton of favors for this you are asking extremely nicely. How can this be considered aggressive?
There are other mechanics, threaten war, embargo, fabricate claim, scornful insult, claim throne, that come across as much more aggressive, yet only one of them even carries aggressive expansion with it.
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Not to mention that when another nation takes your relative as heir, it isn't just you who will at some point get a claim to their throne, they also can get a claim on yours.
Either way, you're not "deposing" anybody, as the mechanic explicitly forbids that.
Either way, you're not "deposing" anybody, as the mechanic explicitly forbids that.
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Took me a few hours to discover this bug , playing in europe. Maybe if you striclty play in SE asia it doesnt happen. But that's not the only issue , as others i notice the game slow a lot more than before for league wars for exemple. That with pc waaaay above recommended specs...
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Claim throne gives you a malus with all existing royal marriage partners
That doesn't address what was quoted. That it is not, in fact, deposing anybody. That claim throne does not result in AE (AE and opinion malus are different things). Neither of those are statements of opinion; instead they are falsifiable statements of fact about EU 4. If either statement happens to be false, why beat around the bush? Just show evidence and those statements are defeated.
Quoted also doesn't refute the internal inconsistency demonstrated earlier. Still waiting to see that coherent definition of terms that predicts EU 4 behavior. I realize I'll probably be waiting a while, but that also proves a point.
I don't have this problem though I also play in SEA and already eaten VJ so maybe it's because of this.