So I needed three wars to revoke a single title

[kviiri]

I was the duke of Bohemia in our MP campaign (a vassal in the HRE). I had a single-count vassal whom I particularly loathed (and he loathed me) so I kept a constant watch on him. Luckily for me, the sod started a plot and I had a reason to imprison him. I wanted his county for myself.

Now, the guy had a huge intrigue level, so I had only 20%-ish chance of success. I parked my army on his county and tried to imprison - boom, war.

I siege his province down, and when it's almost done the Emperor (AI-controlled) decides to create the duchy of Moravia and grant it to my rebelling vassal. Screw this - the war ends inconclusively. Should this even be possible?

Anyway, I luckily had a claim on the duchy of Moravia from the get-go, so I could declared another war for the duchy. Since it's a OPM, I won with ease, but it was a tedious exercise. And after the war, I'm only back where I started - just one duchy title richer, but still needing the bloody count ousted. He just lost the duchy title, but the county I tried to revoke at first is still his.

So I try to imprison him again, and lo - third war just to get the same fricken county that should've been mine with the first war.


I don't like to whine, but if I was a new player to CK2 this kind of stuff would cause me to never play the stupid game again. Fix the war mechanics, please.

 

[elDrastico]

you should've done a war for the county instead of the duchy, then recreated the duchy yourself. Then it would've been only two wars.

 

[kviiri]

you should've done a war for the county instead of the duchy, then recreated the duchy yourself. Then it would've been only two wars.

I didn't have a CB for the county. I had a CB against the disloyal vassal only, and only when he actually was my vassal (so not for the second war). (edit: and for the duchy ofc)

 

[szmik]

Just tough luck, Emperor messed with you, I'd plot kill him in revenge.

 

[Melichai]

The war and CB system can be ridiculously pedantic and break immersion with stuff like you have mentioned. The AI's religious conversion on 99% war score in a holy war is an old favourite. You just have to get on with it, mod in your own CBs, or open the console to impose sensible terms when the game trolls you.

 

[jpinard]

I was the duke of Bohemia in our MP campaign (a vassal in the HRE). I had a single-count vassal whom I particularly loathed (and he loathed me) so I kept a constant watch on him. Luckily for me, the sod started a plot and I had a reason to imprison him. I wanted his county for myself.

Now, the guy had a huge intrigue level, so I had only 20%-ish chance of success. I parked my army on his county and tried to imprison - boom, war.

I siege his province down, and when it's almost done the Emperor (AI-controlled) decides to create the duchy of Moravia and grant it to my rebelling vassal. Screw this - the war ends inconclusively. Should this even be possible?

Anyway, I luckily had a claim on the duchy of Moravia from the get-go, so I could declared another war for the duchy. Since it's a OPM, I won with ease, but it was a tedious exercise. And after the war, I'm only back where I started - just one duchy title richer, but still needing the bloody count ousted. He just lost the duchy title, but the county I tried to revoke at first is still his.

So I try to imprison him again, and lo - third war just to get the same fricken county that should've been mine with the first war.


I don't like to whine, but if I was a new player to CK2 this kind of stuff would cause me to never play the stupid game again. Fix the war mechanics, please.

I feel your pain. That's happened to me a couple of times. What really frustrated me is it was right around 99% warscore and I was close to winning. BAM! Emperor (king can't remember which at the time) redistricts, war over, all for nothing. It was actually worse than nothing when you consider the 2 years it took to coral his stupid army as it kept traipsing, teleporting, escaping, retreating all over Europe. It's like being a gnat trying to suck a cow dry at times.

 

[keynes2.0]

It's like being a gnat trying to suck a cow dry at times.

And of course it's competing with holy war CB which is far less likely to go inconclusive and gives you a whole duchy in one go.

 

[Paragon707]

To be fair Holy Wars are to spread the faith, if the heathen/heretic converts then you've done gods work, your reward shall be given in death. But yeah i feel you, Ai especially Lieges tend to ruin alot of role play, since many of the lieges will view you as enemy number 1 and do their best to ruin your day.

 

[szmik]

... Ai especially Lieges tend to ruin alot of role play, since many of the lieges will view you as enemy number 1 and do their best to ruin your day.

And they're certainly right most of the time.

 

[Maeldun]

I don't like to whine, but if I was a new player to CK2 this kind of stuff would cause me to never play the stupid game again. Fix the war mechanics, please.

A king or emperor liege will often do this to prevent vassals from getting too strong. This is why de Jure duchy borders get so screwed up by computer-controlled realms. In your case it only served to delay you, but most computer-controlled vassals will be stopped by this tactic. There is nothing wrong with it - you can grant titles to people who are at war and if the title changes their liege status like it did in your case, there is no longer any cause for the war since he (as a duke and presumably the same rank as you) can't be rebelling against you any longer so the game halts the war. Nobody said being a vassal of a moronic computer-controlled character would be fun or easy. It does make it more satisfying when you plant his face in the dirt and take his place, however.

 

[Dragatus]

And they're certainly right most of the time.

That's true. I'm always ambitious and envious of my liege's title, whether I have the traits or not.

 

[kviiri]

There is nothing wrong with it - you can grant titles to people who are at war and if the title changes their liege status like it did in your case, there is no longer any cause for the war since he (as a duke and presumably the same rank as you) can't be rebelling against you any longer so the game halts the war.

Why do you say that? To me, this sounds like a circular argument: "that's how it works, so it's how it's supposed to work, so it's good".

I'd inspect this from two points of view: Does it make sense realistically? Does it make the game fun? I think the answers are "no" and "hell no".

 

[Maeldun]

Why do you say that? To me, this sounds like a circular argument: "that's how it works, so it's how it's supposed to work, so it's good".

I'd inspect this from two points of view: Does it make sense realistically? Does it make the game fun? I think the answers are "no" and "hell no".

Everything in this game is "if, then; else" and must be for the code to work. What you're asking for requires abstract arbitration. It's quite simple - the "rebelling vassal" became a duke of same rank, so he can't be a rebelling vassal any longer - therefore the war isn't valid. If you allowed the war to continue and enforced demands with 100% warscore, you'd have no right to revoke his title because he wouldn't be your vassal.

A better solution would be to give the rebelling vassal a temporary title and prohibit the granting of titles to holders of temporary titles. If you think that is the argument, file a bug report in the appropriate forum.

 

[Kumicho]

If you're strong enough, raise all your troops and plant them *next* to the guy's county. Then when you send the imprison request, launch your troops over as well. The target will raise his troops (and get crushed), which gives you both an instant 30-50% warscore *and* means you can assault his castle instead of just sieging it.

 

[kviiri]

Everything in this game is "if, then; else" and must be for the code to work. What you're asking for requires abstract arbitration. It's quite simple - the "rebelling vassal" became a duke of same rank, so he can't be a rebelling vassal any longer - therefore the war isn't valid. If you allowed the war to continue and enforced demands with 100% warscore, you'd have no right to revoke his title because he wouldn't be your vassal.

As I made clear, I hope, I know this is how it works. That's not the point here. I'm saying it should not work that way because it's neither fun or particularly realistic.

As for the bug report part, I'm not sure if it's a bug. It might be WAD, in which case it's just designed stupidly. I think it still should be changed, whether the devs intended it or not.

 

[Maeldun]

I suppose it could have been worse. He could have been a Lord Mayor.

 

[EmoPro]

This is one of the reasons I no longer play ironman. I'll go war again with charinfo and imprison every single time this happens.