So I guess literally everyone in the entire Fanatic Egalitarian empire is just fine becoming a robot

[Asa_TJ]

This is my biggest lingering problem with Utopia- that literally everyone is just going to go along with ascension peacefully. If they're authoritarian, maybe. Fair enough. But we're basically talking about police showing up at everyone's houses and telling them it's time to plug into their new robot body, and nobody is going to care. I can understand a certain amount of putting game mechanics before flavor, but this is pretty egregious from an immersion standpoint if you stop to think about it at all.

It also squashes so much opportunity for interesting stories. For having to decide what to do with the people who refuse the gene treatments. Racial tensions between modified and unmodified. It's a storytelling gold mine!

The psionic one doesn't bother me as much, as a great metaphysical awakening is something that could happen everywhere at once against anyone's will.

EDIT: Wiz responded on Twitter

 

[Untrustedlife]

I saw you reddit post! Hiya

heres my opinion:
We dont know for sure, they might have events associated and wiz may have just avoided mentioning them because they are still being written?
That or he wants to keep them a surprise, Its not like paradox to not think of things like that and wiz was at GDC. In other words, I have a feeling they thought of that case.

If they didnt, then they better add events for it. heh

 

[Velorian]

Maybe picking the ascension path could trigger an event which splits your race so that all the materialist pops and your leaders become part of the improved (now primary) race and the rest remain unimproved at first.

Then maybe slowly new conversions when pops change to materialist or alternatively declare it to be mandatory. Giving unhappiness and causing some pops to attempt alien refuge or outright rebellion.

 

[Asa_TJ]

Maybe picking the ascension path could trigger an event which splits your race so that all the materialist pops and your leaders become part of the improved (now primary) race and the rest remain unimproved at first.

Then maybe slowly new conversions when pops change to materialist or alternatively declare it to be mandatory. Giving unhappiness and causing some pops to attempt alien refuge or outright rebellion.

Yeah, I like that a lot. Spiritualist pops should outright refuse modification unless you pass a policy making it mandatory, which should greatly upset them.

 

[Lothmar]

Maybe you'll have to pay influence or unity to 'convince' people or factions?

 

[Lothmar]

Yeah, I like that a lot. Spiritualist pops should outright refuse modification unless you pass a policy making it mandatory, which should greatly upset them.

At least until after they have been upgraded. *Bobs eyebrows*

...Actually if it's like synths who have a real happiness mechanic instead of set to max like bots, then you might have self hating machines which would be amusing. *chuckle*

 

[prof_doom]

At least until after they have been upgraded. *Bobs eyebrows*

...Actually if it's like synths who have a real happiness mechanic instead of set to max like bots, then you might have self hating machines which would be amusing. *chuckle*

Do you want me to sit in a corner and rust or just fall apart where I'm standing?

 

[Lothmar]

Do you want me to sit in a corner and rust or just fall apart where I'm standing?

Whatevers convenient for you. Just make sure to sit in a recycling bin when you do so they can pick you up.

 

[AndragonLea]

You linked the twitter comment that solves your problem yourself, OP. He said he wants to do more but will probably not have time for it in Banks. That means your concern is highly likely to be temporary in nature.

That said, I understand the concern. We can't even be of one mind when it comes to giving out free condoms, terminating pregnancies or many other topics that concern our rights as individuals to progress the species.

Hard to imagine that the whole world would just go "yay, soulless machine monster future GET!".

I'm looking forward to events where you have to either brow-beat or allow the exodus of fringe parties such as spiritualist minorities in your soon to be brobot empire.

 

[Velorian]

I'm looking forward to events where you have to either brow-beat or allow the exodus of fringe parties such as spiritualist minorities in your soon to be brobot empire.

Yes, also I'd love if occasionally suppressed fanatics might seek refuge with a nearby egalitarian empire, moving the pop.

Maybe if you "choose to deal with them harshly" against an extremist faction there is a chance they will attempt to seek refuge with an empire sharing their values who has open borders. It's a win-win situation, the host empire gets rid of troublemakers and the receiving empire gets free labor and diversity from pops already attuned to their system.

 

[Alblaka]

...Actually if it's like synths who have a real happiness mechanic instead of set to max like bots, then you might have self hating machines which would be amusing. *chuckle*

You can already have Synth with Spiritual ethics complaining about synthetics having Citzien Rights and wanting you to dismantle all synths.

At least they're staying true to their ideals.

 

[Tim_Ward]

In my opinion, this could escalate into a war which decimates a million worlds.

 

[Noomie]

I vaguely recall mention of synthetic evolution being a chain of events.

 

[Scratx]

In my opinion, this could escalate into a war which decimates a million worlds.

Indeed.

CORE vs ARM, anyone?

 

[Tim_Ward]

Indeed.

CORE vs ARM, anyone?

Actually, I meant this thread - but sure, that too

 

[Shermanator]

These are good points. A lot of people have suggested ways to force your population, but what if you didn't have to?
I can imagine most Egalitarian Empires would be ok with allowing people who are against ascending to remain normal, and would make accommodations for them to continue their peaceful existence within the empire.

Perhaps not ascending could have some bonuses to. Maybe another path would be to preserve your species and culture the way it is. (I know you won't have to ascend in the fist place, but I mean you could get bonuses for it on its own) You wouldn't get your leaders or pops upgraded, but maybe you could get some free unity and make people against it happier.

 

[DukeLeto42]

In my opinion, this could escalate into a war which decimates a million worlds.

I'd love to see civil wars breaking out over ascension paths, with some pops starting for themselves down their preferred path....

 

[AvalancheZ250]

Maybe picking the ascension path could trigger an event which splits your race so that all the materialist pops and your leaders become part of the improved (now primary) race and the rest remain unimproved at first.

Then maybe slowly new conversions when pops change to materialist or alternatively declare it to be mandatory. Giving unhappiness and causing some pops to attempt alien refuge or outright rebellion.

This should be a chance event. In the case of synthetic ascension, the chances should be lowest for fanatic materialist and highest if no materialist ethos. Spiritualist ethos can't pick this win type. Vice versa for all ascension win types.

 

[The Founder]

"So I guess literally everyone in the entire Fanatic Egalitarian empire is just fine becoming a robot"
The description of the Cybernetic Step already says "it will become a nessesity to life in our soceity and it will be provided free of charge". At this part of the Ascension Path, Cybernetics are as save as learning a common language. These are not some cheap experimental devices with a 1% chance to go right. This is high end.
It could be as save as getting a Vaccination. Even getting a pacemaker right now might be more dangerous then this.


What makes less sense however is the Fanatic Egalitarian Part. I would guess that going even for one step on this path will bring Materialsit Atraction and Faction Happiness through the roof.
If you consider that Materialist also boost reserach time AND discounts robot maintenance, I really see no reason this should not flip to Fanatic Materialist/Egalitarian as quickly as possible.


In the end, this is the "Genetic Modification" question all over again: "Why would people in a Fanatic Egalitarian Soceity consider undergoing a genetic engineering procedure?"
The answers are:
1) it is provided free of charge.
2) it is free of side effects. Otherwise you would not apply it on such a scale.
3) Even if there are people not doing it, they will only acount for a minority far below what one pop represents. Whatever holdovers of the fleshy world are left, will be insignificant next to a population that did go this way at large.

 

[AmpsterMan]

Are the psionic/synthetic locked to their ethos? If so, i find no problems even in the current climate. Pops now have one ethos, so they either value materialsm XOR egalitarianism. As for a government with both? Am egalitarian government may simply provide economic incentives for pops to become synthetic, and thus do so.