So I got screwed out of my Flanders... WAD?

[Alerias]

Im not sure what happened here and I figured Id ask! By indirect inheritance, a Count in Flanders, France (Yperen's) defected to my HRE. Gleeful, I noticed he had a claim on the Ducal title of Flanders. So if I figured, lets have an epic war with France and claim this great duchy for myself (well, for my new ambitious Count... but whatever paints the map grey and furthers my prestige).

So twenty five thousand levies marched into France behind a mercenary spearhead and waste and devastation was laid to the land. Dozens of French blue-bloods rot in my jails. And I get a 75% warscore which to my surprise is enough to get Sa Majesté to surrender. Alls well! Except... not only does my Count only gets half of Flanders for some reason :sad: he also breaks away and become independent the second we sign the peace treaty, as if it was the deal all along or the most natural thing in the world. Wtf, the peace screen even confirms he's supposed to be my vassal as a result of the war :angry:

And now of course Ive not only lost Yperens, but even though he really likes me, the newly independent Duke of Flanders wont accept offers of Vassalisations because I'm a foreigner and he thinks he can take me The bastard even took ZEELAND away in the process somehow. Was this a bug?

 

[Secret Master]

Sounds like a bug to me. I've never seen that happen in my preview copy.

I have seen cases where the person you put in power ends up being the vassal of another liege due to some arcane aspects of rules, but never just independent.

 

[Hashoosh]

I remember reading on the original CB for press claims that they wouldn't be your vassal unless they were the same dynasty. I think there was one other exception, but I can't remember it (de jure title being yours?, which Flanders is not)

 

[asix79]

I don't want to pretend that I know as much as some here, but I do know that pressing a claim for someone usually results in the maxing out of his opinion of you. Under that condition, I've been able to easily have my offers of vassalization be accepted.

 

[Alerias]

I don't want to pretend that I know as much as some here, but I do know that pressing a claim for someone usually results in the maxing out of his opinion of you. Under that condition, I've been able to easily have my offers of vassalization be accepted.

Not in this case. Sure relation was +100 but different culture and even a 'distant realm' penalty because the breakaway Duke didnt even share a border with me because somehow France retained all the bordering provinces (see screenshot)

Anyhow, I invaded him to at least get Zeeland back, that much worked. Amusingly after the war he still thought +99 of me, because I had helped him secure his claims +100 and attacking him was only -25

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

Well I doubt this is WAD.

 

[HolisticGod]

Might well be WAD under the theory described.

In which case, I'm not certain it should be changed. I wish there was some way to negotiate that outcome when deciding to press the claim.

 

[Alerias]

What absolutely needs to be changed if this is WAD are descriptions and informations for players. In time us hardcore fans will know the intricate mechanics but its unacceptable for a casual player to wage a major war like this and end up feeling deeply butthurt. Im not obviously, this is just a saveless demo which I see as an open beta, but in the final product, you can have any rules you want, but its critical that a player who DOESNT 'get' the intricate game mechanics can know the consequences of his wars easily. Whether he wins them is another issue, but confusion about the consequences of either scenario isn't right.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Well the screen says that Count Robert of Zeeland has a new liege, but now he is also Duke of Flanders - maybe it is another case where change of rank/title creates a new situation.

+1 however on the "deal" being clear when you press a puppet claim.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Smells bug, since the message said the Kaiser become the new liege. So if that didn't happen it must be a bug,

 

[unmerged(68578)]

This happened to me as well.

 

[Captain Gars]

When you pressed the claim the information in the tooltip says, just as someone pointed out, that he will only become your vassal if he's of your dynasty or if he's a de jure vassal of yours. In this case he was neither so the end result is the correct one. The error here is the last line in the pop up which is clearly wrong - and has now been fixed. What you could do if you had wanted him as your vassal is to give him land within the de jure part of the HRE and then press the claim. In tat case he would have ended up as your vassal.

 

[Searry]

When you pressed the claim the information in the tooltip says, just as someone pointed out, that he will only become your vassal if he's of your dynasty or if he's a de jure vassal of yours. In this case he was neither so the end result is the correct one. The error here is the last line in the pop up which is clearly wrong - and has now been fixed. What you could do if you had wanted him as your vassal is to give him land within the de jure part of the HRE and then press the claim. In tat case he would have ended up as your vassal.

Well, I certainly hope that these intricasies will be somehow shown in the game to remind people.

 

[Järnblomma]

Well, I certainly hope that these intricasies will be somehow shown in the game to remind people.

Indeed. Though if they are I'm completly fine with this. It makes some sense.

 

[Captain Gars]

Well, I certainly hope that these intricasies will be somehow shown in the game to remind people.

As I said:

When you pressed the claim the information in the tooltip says, just as someone pointed out, that he will only become your vassal if he's of your dynasty or if he's a de jure vassal of yours.

 

[Searry]

As I said:
When you pressed the claim the information in the tooltip says, just as someone pointed out, that he will only become your vassal if he's of your dynasty or if he's a de jure vassal of yours.

Still a collection of rules etc. would be a good thing! Just think of the Civilopedia for example.

 

[Arizael]

Still a collection of rules etc. would be a good thing! Just think of the Civilopedia for example.

This. Absolutely needed. The game is so complex and the manual contains only the most basic information.

 

[Alerias]

When you pressed the claim the information in the tooltip says, just as someone pointed out, that he will only become your vassal if he's of your dynasty or if he's a de jure vassal of yours. In this case he was neither so the end result is the correct one. The error here is the last line in the pop up which is clearly wrong - and has now been fixed. What you could do if you had wanted him as your vassal is to give him land within the de jure part of the HRE and then press the claim. In tat case he would have ended up as your vassal.

Thanks for the clarification!

I thought the fact he was already my vassal (outside the HRE) meant he'd stay so, but I guess I should not have assumed. Thank you!

It doesn't entirely explain why gaining the Duchy of Flanders did not mean gaining all the provinces in Flanders though. I had a similar problem when claiming the Pope's ducal title, I didnt get Rome itself. I assume its something like "You only get the counties directly under Ducal rule, not those delegated to counts or ruled by the King-level tile", but if its how it works, wont we have terrible ugly border syndrome?

 

[unmerged(315814)]

Thats because those counties are direct property of the former duke an you only took his dukedom.

 

[kentonio]

When you pressed the claim the information in the tooltip says, just as someone pointed out, that he will only become your vassal if he's of your dynasty or if he's a de jure vassal of yours.

Can I just ask why it works that way? I'd understand it if it was a kingdom claim of course, but why would my vassal stop being my vassal when he goes from count to duke?