So I figured out how to beat the traffic and how not to lose money, and you can too

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lanthanum

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I wasted hours trying to build a basic system only to see everything I do cause traffic to pile up and people to wait angrily by the hundreds at crowded stops. I would try to relieve the pressure by adding more vehicles but that only seemed to exacerbate the traffic problem.

What I did, and what I can only assume most other people who are having trouble are doing, was to try and build up, to start from a simple bus system and work up to trams and wait until there was some cash before moving onto subway systems and the other fancy options. I mean, it's a no-brainer, isn't it? Build that awesome cross-town bus line that hits all the major spots and it'll be the best ever. People will love it and it'll make tons of money, right?

This common sense way of thinking seems to be the game's biggest pitfall. You simply cannot approach this game as if it behaved like a real, bona fide city transportation network. I spent so much time trying to rework my bus strategy, smaller routes, less traffic-filled routes, direct routes to popular spots -- I tried all of that and with each failed attempt I only grew more frustrated. Nothing seems to work.

What a lot of people here have already pointed out is that the only thing that really works is the metro. And this is ultimately true. But unfortunately this is firstly not the most practical way of playing. Metros are awfully expensive and can really take time to build if you're not starting with tons of cash. When I started a normal mode sandbox in Berlin I had to take out a lot of loans just to build a tiny two-stop metro line and wait for months on end until I was solvent enough to keep building (by taking out more loans, of course).

But the other, more important (I think) problem with this is that the metro essentially breaks the game and removes the incentive to use anything else. The metro cars can pack up to 70 or so people and zip by underground or over roads while the buses and trams struggle to push over 20 most of the time, and that's only if you're lucky enough to be in a time period that can push over 10 people per bus!

The good news is that you can have a rich experience by using everything. You just have to approach the game from a different perspective. You cannot look at it like an actual transportation network because it simply doesn't work that way. What I did to much success so far is to build FROM the Metro and have the other methods of transportation feeding into the metro stations from SMALL areas around them. Like 5 or so bus stops that loop out from 1 metro stop, trams that stay off the road as much as possible but still don't get too adventurous in terms of length.

The emphasis in the game is the interoperability of the different modes of transportation, NOT on the idea that you can just build a ton of buses and make it work. Maybe that's a detriment to some who would like to make a bus-only city, and who knows, maybe it is possible and I just wasn't clever enough to make it happen. But once I started approaching the game in a different way all of the problems that I had before suddenly disappeared entirely. And this is BEFORE the patch is even out on Steam.

Ultimately this thread is for all the people who are undoubtedly frustrated to no end with a game they bought but can't seem to make work in any way that makes sense. I was about ready to give up on the game and wait for some kind of significant update before even trying it again but now that I can actually do it without failing it's really a fun game. I no longer have problems with sluggish traffic. I no longer have angry lines of 150 people at one stop. I'm no longer hemorrhaging money.

So if you're one of the people who was doing what I was doing, and from the number of people complaining about traffic and lines of people, I assume there are a lot, then please give it another try and approach it as a game with its own rules rather than as a 100% accurate traffic simulator. Change the way you play to match the game's rules.
 

douglasrac

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I agree with you.
I started with the Tutorial Town, as sandbox, and I manage to build a nice public transportation without metro for a while. Trams really need to be off road as much as possible, and buses is recommendable to get people from far away areas, like rural areas or suburbs. Then of course if you want to attend more people you need metro. So, build a bus line in downtown, in the beginning of the game is a bad idea.

Put in your mind that more effective is your transport, less traffic the city will have. So, at the beginning everybody will use car, because few people can go to places with your buses or trams.
In tutorial town I even made a profitable helicopter service.

In Berlin is much harder to use trams because of the space. So I needed an early metro.

P.S.: follow someone the entire journey from his house to his work, is priceless!
 

unmerged(272700)

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So if you're one of the people who was doing what I was doing, and from the number of people complaining about traffic and lines of people, I assume there are a lot, then please give it another try and approach it as a game with its own rules rather than as a 100% accurate traffic simulator. Change the way you play to match the game's rules.

+1 brother
 

douglasrac

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Oh, I remember another thing I learned: economic changes are really important.

When economy is down, loan rates are lower and building is cheaper. But people won't be willing to pay much for your services, so you need to low ticket prices.
So it's like this: economy is good, you get loads of money, the tickets have high prices. You will be willing to expand your network and make improvements. Don't do it! Save your money for bad times.

When the crisis hits you, go get a loan. It's cheaper. Go expand your network. Building is cheaper and vehicles are cheaper too. But also take care that you will be probably losing a bit of money every month, because less people will use your services. When people are saving money is time for you to spend, and vice-versa.

Once I even took a loan on bad economy situation to pay another loan, just because the interest and monthly payments was lower. So keep an eye on your money, not only your network. Great opportunities appear in bad times.
 

JCFast

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Well thinking like this the most reasonable option due to the games economic model is: always take all the available loans from the get-go, build a metro network, get paid. Seriously this works almost every time, you can a bit more cash if you bother to put in some supporting tram and bus lines. But was this meant to be possible and the best alternative in almost every case?
 

unmerged(273151)

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Coverage seems to be pretty important too. When I've seen huge traffic jams, I've gone through checking the drivers and the majority of them are either coming or going to places that aren't covered by my network.

I'm tempted to start fresh and cover the city in bus lines to get as close to 100% coverage as possible to see if it has an impact on the traffic.
 

unmerged(210488)

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Have you tried this? i posted it in the steam forum, here is my tip if u have a bus route that is square for example (to make it easier) have a bus stop both sides of the road and have a line for buses going clockwise, and buses going counterclockwise, so hopefully pasengers get on the bus quicker to there drop of point, in theroy meaning u should need less buses.
 
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giladteller

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It is not entirely true that the real world is not working like in the game.
Most cities have a central bus station(s) and most lines come and go from this central station to all the different locations.
But, some cities work like this game. Take Jerusalem for example. For many years it had one large central bus station with many line going from there to the rest of the town, the entire city was one huge traffic jam (sounds familiar?) In the recent years they started construction of one Light-Rail line that goes east-west (vehicles of 200-300 passengers that drives on designated routes and never shares routes with cars but sometimes crosses traffic in intersections). When the line will be opened in April, they will change all the bus lines in the city to "feed" the light-rail. Another BRT (Large busses that also have their designated route) line is under costruction that goes north-south and again, "regular" buses "feed" this line.
I believe this system is the most usefull, while any passenger will prefer to get on one station and ride the same line to his destination, this is not practical. Like lanthanum and others said, a good transport system is one that has a good high-capacity and fast metro that go too all edges of town, but doesn't cover all town. around every station there should be a few bus and tram lines that add to the coverage of their metro station and "feed" this station.
 

unmerged(272945)

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Wow, that was a long first post with lots of important issues brought up. Kudos =)

I've sadly come to notice that usually my efforts to turn into profit, especially in the Scenario mode, are severely hindered by thinking "How would I place these stops in real life". In Cities in Motion things seem to end up clogged if I place, let's say 20, stops along the line in central Vienna. Instead I would need to put one stop near apartment building, a maximum of one stop along the line so as to have some control which route my bus takes, then the final stop at an office building. Not have stops dotted all over the place like candies on the ground. But if I do this I have ultimately very little control in case I want to choose the motorway so that my bus can take advantage of its 80 km/h maximum speed (Scenario no. 6).

Hopefully things like this will be improved in future patches and versions. Remembering the copy of Transport Tycoon I bought in 1996, how few functions it actually had with let's say, OpenTTD as it works now. Can't remember how did the pathfinding work in the game back then, were there buses which did not stop where I ordered not to or did the speed of the vehicles slow down according to how steep a slope is or was. I know that CIM can not properly be compared with TT but my point is rather that patience is a virtue. Hoping of course that Paradox or some other publisher will continue to support the game's development towards newer and better things.
 

douglasrac

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It is not entirely true that the real world is not working like in the game.
Most cities have a central bus station(s) and most lines come and go from this central station to all the different locations.
But, some cities work like this game. Take Jerusalem for example. For many years it had one large central bus station with many line going from there to the rest of the town, the entire city was one huge traffic jam (sounds familiar?) In the recent years they started construction of one Light-Rail line that goes east-west (vehicles of 200-300 passengers that drives on designated routes and never shares routes with cars but sometimes crosses traffic in intersections). When the line will be opened in April, they will change all the bus lines in the city to "feed" the light-rail. Another BRT (Large busses that also have their designated route) line is under costruction that goes north-south and again, "regular" buses "feed" this line.
I believe this system is the most usefull, while any passenger will prefer to get on one station and ride the same line to his destination, this is not practical. Like lanthanum and others said, a good transport system is one that has a good high-capacity and fast metro that go too all edges of town, but doesn't cover all town. around every station there should be a few bus and tram lines that add to the coverage of their metro station and "feed" this station.

WOW! You said everything.
That's a very good logic.

But I wonder: this way you need to start with metro. If you start with buses, you need short lines, carrying people on the edge of the city, or farms, and never go to downtown, until you have enough money for the metro.
Maybe you can build a good network only on the edges at the beginning. Seems nice. I will try. Completely opposite what people normally think, or try to do, which is to build your first line in downtown, in order to have more profit.
 

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Great post and is in line with what I am experiencing. If you turn on the traffic filter and watch a bus, there is always a red square under the bus stating heavy traffic no matter where the bus is at on its route. I think this behavior alone is one of the causes. As there is basically a traffic jam following the bus where ever it goes. I think the developers should still tweak the traffic a bit. As cars on four lane roads will not use the inside lane to pass the bus that is stopped picking up customers. I’d like to see the game follow more conventional logic. What city starts with a subway and then implements buses?
 

unmerged(353484)

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Great post and is in line with what I am experiencing. If you turn on the traffic filter and watch a bus, there is always a red square under the bus stating heavy traffic no matter where the bus is at on its route. I think this behavior alone is one of the causes. As there is basically a traffic jam following the bus where ever it goes. I think the developers should still tweak the traffic a bit. As cars on four lane roads will not use the inside lane to pass the bus that is stopped picking up customers. I’d like to see the game follow more conventional logic. What city starts with a subway and then implements buses?

I agree that the devs need to do a bit more work on the traffic model. I never understand why on a four lane road, cars rarely pass a stopped bus, even when the other lane is completely clear. I don't think even requires a feature like bus lanes (although, those would be nice), but just a basic "logic shift" in how the traffic model works. A shift that fits the real world.

However, I do think that there are other solutions to this problem, other than metro. It's one of the things I've appreciated more about this game...I can't just plop stuff down and go on autopilot.

For example, when I lay down a new line, I try to choose routes that don't have lots of traffic. If it has bad traffic before I put buses or trams in, it will have terrible traffic when I'm done. Additionally, I try to avoid making "grand central" types of interchanges in the middle of a high traffic area.

Beyond these things, one of the biggest skills I'm working on is building lines that are highly efficient. For example, if I build a series of six bus stops in a circle people who get on at Stop 1 and want to go to Stop 6 have to ride ALL the way around. So they clog up my bus. And guess what? This means I need more buses! So I buy more buses. Same thing happens to them. Traffic increases exponentially. BUT, if I build those same six bus stops, but with companion stops across the street (total of 12 stops), I can run a second line that direction around. Or, I can just have the buses turn around and go the other way. Either way, people go the direction that works best for them, and my buses are as clear as possible.

Obviously, there's still some traffic issues, especially in downtown areas. But I suspect those aren't all "dealbreakers" for buses/trams. Why is there more traffic? They spawn for a reason. Is it because they aren't in the route, and they need to drive? Are your vehicles attractive enough? I haven't figured out all the answers, but I think there's more to it than just the game deciding to destroy the player as much as possible.
 

unmerged(252034)

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I would also like to chime in and say that I have a learned a lot about CIM from my Brooklyn-queens map. I originally tried to take the "Traffic Giant" approach and build very long bus routes that cut through downtown and expand from there. This does not work in CIM as in order to have an efficient and effective network, the people need to be able to travel from anywhere to anywhere or else they'll take their car.

All areas and corners should be covered as far as service is concerned and never focus too much on 1 route. Also make sure to spread the stops out far enough so that the coverage circles are not overlapping.
 

unmerged(359418)

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Tried the Berlin 1 scenario maybe 4 or 5 times before cracking it. Take out a big loan at the start to build a west to east metro with 4 or 5 stops at key locations, get 5 or 6 trains running on them and very soon you have 80 passengers using it regularly bringing in enough money to pay off your loans after half an hour. Then you can finance steady build up of small bus loops and complete the various missions while the core of the passenger strain is being taken by the metro.
I ended up with 220 furious passengers waiting at the railway station metro stop but I completed the scenario easily once the cash started to flow.
 

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Is it just me or does every one else set their prices
7.00 for buses
7.50 Trams
8.00 subways

I know they are in red all the time but it seems to make no difference to how happy people are or how many want to use the service. I sometimes have 150 people waiting to pay 8.00 to get on my subways.
 

giladteller

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Is it just me or does every one else set their prices
7.00 for buses
7.50 Trams
8.00 subways

I know they are in red all the time but it seems to make no difference to how happy people are or how many want to use the service. I sometimes have 150 people waiting to pay 8.00 to get on my subways.

And how is your reputation?
My goal in the game is to to make passengers happy before make as much money as possible. I set my prices to dark green, and change it according to the economy changes. I can still make a very nice profit, and my reputation is always high.
 

slornie

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I tend to set my prices at the top of the white band (and change it in line with the economy), but i do try to keep the same price difference between modes of transport. E.g 5.00 bus, 5.50 tram, 6.50 metro (i don't often use waterbus or helicopter).