So, how will Japan be broken for the first month of 1.12 (if at all)?

[Falc]

*sigh* No chance at all of an Imperial Restoration?

I mean, attemps were made during the time period before the daimyo unifiers... It's of course impossible to extrapolate what exactly would have resulted, but I'd really like the option...

 

[Homusubi]

If you want to implement Imperial Restorations, a) learn to mod (unless you already have done) and b) remember that it makes far more sense for the restorers to be a unique type of rebel (like Ikko-Ikki) than to actually have a player decision, seeing as the Shogunate would not agree to dissolving itself.

 

[Magean]

If you want to implement Imperial Restorations, a) learn to mod (unless you already have done) and b) remember that it makes far more sense for the restorers to be a unique type of rebel (like Ikko-Ikki) than to actually have a player decision, seeing as the Shogunate would not agree to dissolving itself.

Such a decision could be compared with the "Become Netherlands" available for Burgundy. It makes little sense history-wise that the Burgundian ruling family, had it survived, would have been assimilated by its Dutch holdings and then decided to relinquish its French original provinces to form a new Dutch national state... Therefore, I don't expect a successful AI Burgundy to go such a way. However, it's useful for a player that wants to play Netherlands starting with the country holding (before 1.12) a sizable chunk of them.

Likewise, though it would make no sense for the Bakufu to auto-dissolve, the decision to switch to an imperial restoration could be made available for players, because that'd be the only not too convoluted way to play the historical dynasty.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Elevating the Shogun to Emperor would be an usurpation. From my readings on Japanese history, it would be a non-sense. You could have a figurehead Emperor deprived of any real power, that happened all the time. But the emperor remained a religious symbol, the dynastic continuity was extremely important. I would rather see a government form called Empire but ruled by a Shogun.

Actually all the game is about usurpation, the nightmare of every good aristocrat. Is not only about Japan if we must be precise.
Actually one way to solve situation like this is an expansion about prime ministers, validos, favourites etc... So you have your ruler, but for example you can also elevate advisors or vassals to rule your government, so you can have Olivares in Castille, Buckingam in England, Mazzarino in France etc... and with costitutional monarchies you can Robert Walpole and with the same way you can also put a daimyo as shogun. To have some bonus to stats, diplomatic bonus with a vassal and so on, with maybe a negative hit if the things don't go well during the reign of this prominent character. For example choiche a Valido can improve the aristocrats rebels, and a bad shogun can improve a sengoku jidai in japan against the choosen one, the shogun.

Actually a mechanic like this could be useful for a game of thrones mod too. T

 

[Lamahorse]

It always bugged me that your dynasty changed on forming Japan.

 

[Homusubi]

It always bugged me that your dynasty changed on forming Japan.

...it didn't, surely?

 

[birincikalite]

I played a 200 year Ouichi campaign on the final build without major issues, so Japan's probably gonna be just fine.

Mind sharing? ^^

 

[Darkath]

Elevating the Shogun to Emperor would be an usurpation. From my readings on Japanese history, it would be a non-sense. You could have a figurehead Emperor deprived of any real power, that happened all the time. But the emperor remained a religious symbol, the dynastic continuity was extremely important. I would rather see a government form called Empire but ruled by a Shogun.

Tokugawa was a traditionalist so of course it would have been a non-sense for him and his descendants. But a revolutionary like Nobunaga, might have done away with the emperor as soon as he was no longer useful.

I'll change united Japan to be an Empire but still with the Shogun ruler title (if monarchy).

What is the current government form of japan in 1.12 ? Is the shogunate with lots of dip relations still a thing ? Can we change our government form once japan is united ?

 

[neondt]

Just played a quick game as Japan as a farewell to patch 1.11. Unified* by 1460. Yeah, I think Japan can stand to take the hit to diplo-annex.

* By unified I mean, used the decision to unite Japan that requires that no Daimyos exist.

What is the current government form of japan in 1.12 ? Is the shogunate with lots of dip relations still a thing ? Can we change our government form once japan is united ?

Yes, Japan begins as a Shogunate with the dip relations bonus. The decisions to unify Japan change it to a feudal monarchy.

 

[Granite]

This makes me wonder, does a United Japan even have enough provinces/development to achieve Empire rank, given that you have to work for the rank in 1.12. It would be kind of awkward to see a United Japan be titled as a kingdom, or God forbid, a duchy.

 

[zdlugasz]

This makes me wonder, does a United Japan even have enough provinces/development to achieve Empire rank, given that you have to work for the rank in 1.12. It would be kind of awkward to see a United Japan be titled as a kingdom, or God forbid, a duchy.

Wiz wrote that they will/are adding empire rank. I guess in one of hotfixes.
Although should every country with name "Empire" be given rank Empire? I think that they should earn that rank.


Edit: which would suggest that their total development is not big enough (1000 is huge)

 

[Granite]

It just confuses me. I suppose that their name might change to "Empire" but that their technical rank would probably be at Kingdom level until they hit 1000 development?

 

[Chaos_TLW]

You can be elevated to rank through a decision, as seen in the Prussia and Germany formation decisions(elevate you, respectively, to Kingdom and Empire automatically, no more requirements). Japan will likely be in the same situation.

 

[aitaituo]

Tokugawa was a traditionalist so of course it would have been a non-sense for him and his descendants. But a revolutionary like Nobunaga, might have done away with the emperor as soon as he was no longer useful.

Nobunaga is probably the only one with the power to do so that might have actually considered abolishing the monarchy, though the Ikko-Ikki movement probably would have done so in a heartbeat if they ever had the chance.

All political legitimacy in Japan derived from the Emperors, who nominally owned all the land and safeguarded it through religious rituals and the Daimyo, Shoguns, Bugyo, and Regents all ostensibly ruled in the Emperor's name. Dismantling the monarchy has therefore never made political sense. Why depose an Emperor when you can just force him to give you all his authority? Most Emperors were content with the arrangement.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I'll change united Japan to be an Empire but still with the Shogun ruler title (if monarchy).

Your team has been great about responding to the community as of late.

So let's see... maybe two different types of empire, a United Shogunate and a Japanese Empire. The Shogunate could have primarily military bonuses while a Japanese Empire as primarily civic bonuses. Switching away from either of those should be quite painful, as well.

 

[MarkS00N]

I prefer the Emperor to be a unique feature for Shintoism if it ever implemented to be honest...

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I prefer the Emperor to be a unique feature for Shintoism if it ever implemented to be honest...

That's a great idea. It could be a feature that's sort of like, as somebody else noted here, the Papacy. Catholic Daimyos certainly shouldn't care who's on the Chrystanthemum Throne and what they think.

 

[Arachne]

Japan being an empire was a thing that came into being through contact with the West. Japan's tennou ("Heavenly Monarch") assumed that rank, and Japan claimed it as the translation of his title, because they wanted the status it involved. It turned out to have been a shrewd move, too, looking at Japan's current state. Having a unified Japan be a kingdom instead would work just fine - the country only adopted imperialism later on in life, and certainly was a "proper" empire by WWII.

 

[Homusubi]

Japan being an empire was a thing that came into being through contact with the West. Japan's tennou ("Heavenly Monarch") assumed that rank, and Japan claimed it as the translation of his title, because they wanted the status it involved. It turned out to have been a shrewd move, too, looking at Japan's current state. Having a unified Japan be a kingdom instead would work just fine - the country only adopted imperialism later on in life, and certainly was a "proper" empire by WWII.

Google "Imjin War". Japanese imperialism started far before Meiji.

 

[horngeek]

It's kind of the same thing with the Constitutional Monarchy government form, where you still have a monarch and get monarch points from them but in reality the country would be run by a prime minister.

I dunno, has anyone ever tried an American-type system where the Executive branch is headed up by a monarch instead of an elected President?

Because it seems to me like that'd actually be how a Constitutional Monarchy might turn out.