So, how will Japan be broken for the first month of 1.12 (if at all)?

[Homusubi]

1.7.0: Annexing a daimyo will also annex Japan.
1.8.0: Ashikaga can use daimyo casus belli. Sakoku law only affects your subjects.
1.9.0: Too small to have a Japan fault. 1.10.0: Forgotten.
1.11.0: Daimyo declare independence wars scarily often.

Every patch, to varying extents: AI Catholic unified Ashikaga persisting until 1821.

1.11.4: Finally, 100-year-long Sengoku periods that result in Shinto shogunates that aren't Ashikaga.


1.12.0: What exactly?

The patchnotes, at least for the free features, don't seem to feature any possible Japan-breakers like 1.8 did. But has anyone noticed something that I haven't?

 

[Wizzington]

I played a 200 year Ouichi campaign on the final build without major issues, so Japan's probably gonna be just fine.

 

[Homusubi]

I played a 200 year Ouichi campaign on the final build without major issues, so Japan's probably gonna be just fine.

Brilliant, thanks for replying! Looks like I'll be able to do what I always do and play Daimyo first thing after a patch.

 

[m1c]

I played a 200 year Ouichi campaign on the final build without major issues, so Japan's probably gonna be just fine.

By the way can we get a fix so that unifying Japan through the decision keeps the Yamato dynasty on the throne instead of getting stuck with the dynasty of whichever daimyo you unified it with?
just a little thing that has been bothering me for a long time

 

[neondt]

Diplo-annex is much more expensive now. But that's not the end of the world. As Japan it's easier to just abuse Enforce Peace to annex the Daimyos in a strategic order.

 

[josh127]

I played a 200 year Ouichi campaign on the final build without major issues, so Japan's probably gonna be just fine.

Is Japan buffed for keeping vassals happy in any way? Based on the mechanics that are mentioned, it seems that Japan will have an extremely hard time annexing those vassals.

Of course, perhaps that is the intent. Create an unstable area where everyone is vying for control. If so, it's a unique and interesting dynamic for Japan.

 

[neondt]

Is Japan buffed for keeping vassals happy in any way? Based on the mechanics that are mentioned, it seems that Japan will have an extremely hard time annexing those vassals.

Of course, perhaps that is the intent. Create an unstable area where everyone is vying for control. If so, it's a unique and interesting dynamic for Japan.

Not necessarily a bad thing, since it's trivially easy right now to unite Japan by 1500-ish.

 

[ahyangyi]

1.12.0 Japan gets richer than Ming by 1500 and gets richer than a westernized Ming by 1600, because lots of daimyos developing the land together, which actually sounds awesome.

 

[josh127]

Not necessarily a bad thing, since it's trivially easy right now to unite Japan by 1500-ish.

Yeah, creating an interesting form of conflict is generally good. If this is the situaton and it's a big dance for control, I think that would be an interesting change.

 

[Falc]

1.12.0 Japan gets richer than Ming by 1500 and gets richer than a westernized Ming by 1600, because lots of daimyos developing the land together, which actually sounds awesome.

Unless of course Ming explodes and then manages to reannex everything...

 

[Darkath]

By the way can we get a fix so that unifying Japan through the decision keeps the Yamato dynasty on the throne instead of getting stuck with the dynasty of whichever daimyo you unified it with?
just a little thing that has been bothering me for a long time

Japan tag shouldn't actually exist in 1444 and be replaced by an Ashikaga tag.

Forming Japan should bring the Yamato emperor as actual leader of Japan replacing your daimyo's dynasty and gain empire rank. Which would basically amount ot an early Meiji Restauration.

But you should also be able to keep playing as you original tag (just as it happened in history where Tokugawa Japan still existed in 1821) as a Shogun, with eventually a decision to dethrone the emperor and gain empire rank.

 

[m1c]

Exactly, we even have separate unification decisions for the shogun and the daimyos. It would be best to have the daimyo unification event get the Yamato emperor and the shogun unification elevate the shogun to emperor.

 

[Darkath]

In my idea, both should have both. Since a daimyo uniting japan basically becomes the shogun it doesn't really make sense to separate the two.

 

[Heatth]

But you should also be able to keep playing as you original tag (just as it happened in history where Tokugawa Japan still existed in 1821) as a Shogun, with eventually a decision to dethrone the emperor and gain empire rank.

Tokugawa's Japan was for all intents "Japan", not "Tokugawa". The clan was the ruler of the empire and the emperor was just a figure head. I see no problem an unified Japan having a non-Yamato as "monarch", but it would be nice if there were events that refer to the situation.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Tokugawa's Japan was for all intents "Japan", not "Tokugawa". The clan was the ruler of the empire and the emperor was just a figure head. I see no problem an unified Japan having a non-Yamato as "monarch", but it would be nice if there were events that refer to the situation.

That's a fair point. Meiji, to my knowledge, ruled the Empire, but I believe Hirohito was just a figurehead.

Simple approach - if Japan is united by somebody other than the Emperor, the Emperor obviously isn't going to be running the country. We can assume, then, that the ruler reflects the head of government, not the head of state.

 

[Magean]

Exactly, we even have separate unification decisions for the shogun and the daimyos. It would be best to have the daimyo unification event get the Yamato emperor and the shogun unification elevate the shogun to emperor.

Elevating the Shogun to Emperor would be an usurpation. From my readings on Japanese history, it would be a non-sense. You could have a figurehead Emperor deprived of any real power, that happened all the time. But the emperor remained a religious symbol, the dynastic continuity was extremely important. I would rather see a government form called Empire but ruled by a Shogun.

 

[tobias.mb]

Before the Meiji Restauration the emperor of Japan was something like the pope at best.
Making him the ruler of Japan after some Daimyo has united it would be absolutely unhistorical.

 

[Mauer]

It's kind of the same thing with the Constitutional Monarchy government form, where you still have a monarch and get monarch points from them but in reality the country would be run by a prime minister.

 

[IsadorBG]

1.12.0: What exactly?

The Empire (Ming) strikes back.

 

[Wizzington]

I'll change united Japan to be an Empire but still with the Shogun ruler title (if monarchy).