So how is Byzantine Bureaucracy?

[rcasale]

What is everyone's thoughts on Byzantine Bureaucracy as compared to the other leadership civics, Aristocratic Elite, Merchant Guilds, Technocracy, and Exalted Priesthood?

From my perspective, it seems pretty damn good.

Not only does it give you the Bureaucratic Complex which gives two more Administrators for more amenities and unity, but it gives the empire wide -10% housing and amenity usage. The reduced housing need seems particularly important, since you probably want to build as few city districts as possible so you fill up all those raw resource districts instead.

And unlike the other civics, it actually provides you with more ruler jobs (2 more administrators) whereas the other ones just swap out an administrator for something else.

 

[Starcomet]

I like the flavor of the civic and I agree it is good! It goes well with my human Irenic Bureaucracy!

 

[AlknicTeos]

I also love this civic. Together with the Social Pheromones ( event, - 5% housing need ), Communal - 10% housing need, and fertile another less 10% housing. I come to only 65% housing need, reducing the "unwanted" clerk jobs and reducing the empire sprawl also a little. I dont like clerks, they produce so little amounts, imho. ... but this also has downsides, fen habbanis with +2 district perk stuff, has right now in my game 342 pops, and I still have 68 housing left, meaning this planet can fit about 450 pops.
I have about 6,1k pops, and another 700 pops to purge ( 6,8k in sum ) I produce 86 k science and have fought empire sprawl once completely. Now after conquering some stuff I suffer about 70 over the admin cap, which is 1260 ^^. In 2437 I consume about 480 exotic gases - all for science buildings

 

[the glory of plain]

not necessary after few decades
but the buff are good enough

 

[tobias.mb]

the other ones just swap out an administrator for something else.

Aristocrats also gives you an extra building for +1 noble jobs. And nobles are really good; each one gives you +5 stability (& +5 amenities). That's a fair amount of extra productivity.

It's probably a matter of taste, but I prefer aristocrats over byzantine. I can still build the same amount of raw resource districts (since those are limited by deposits & planet size), so I only end up with fewer builldings (since I can't get as many pops as I could with byzantine). But I can compensate for that by leaving planets mostly for raw resources and doing my manufactoring, research and refining on habitats and ecumenopolis'.
Both housing and amenities are also a lot less problematic, if you are using (servitude) robots or slaves. (And I usually have both)
I guess byzantine is a lot better, if you are using better living standards.

Technocracy is very strong in the early game, where you struggle a bit to afford extra labs. If your strategy involves rushing a few key techs, technocracy is a really good choice.
But I'm bot really sure how you can integrate priesthood or merchant guilds into a playstyle?

 

[Livigy]

Byz Bureaucracy is okey but it was't game changing unless you don't have access to other means to reduce housing needs. I imagine it pairs particularly well with Utopian abundance. I will have to give the egalitarians another go at some point I just hate not being able to resettle pops..

Stability from aristocrats is amazing as stability converts into whole world percentage production it far outweighs the rest of the mutually exclusive leader civics. Possibly even for science, as buffing all your science production by 10-15% (along with everything else - including gases for more science buildings) is possibly worth more than the extra science directors.

 

[PanzerMan7]

I like to take it as my 3rd perk. As my society grows, so has my bureaucracy

 

[AlknicTeos]

... It's probably a matter of taste, but I prefer aristocrats over byzantine. ...?

maybe have a look to my save, it's about maximizing science , ... and I would like to change ascension perks when you hit 2M unity, 'cause there is also unity overflow.
You are also welcome to give some helpful input, how to do better
( tech costs normal : 1, no advanced civ, and I changed that the precursors always give a fen habbanis system, and nanite worlds are also without grey tempest terraformable )

 

[Strangedane]

I like to take it as my 3rd perk. As my society grows, so has my bureaucracy

The bureaucracy MUST expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.

 

[Jabarto]

It's great, but I usually take it as my third choice since the bonuses don't really kick int until later in the game. Housing doesn't become an issue on most planets until you get to around 30-40 pops, and while the building is pretty good, it's pricey and building slots are at a premium early on.

It's probably my favorite overall civic after Shared Burdens, though. And coincidentally, those two civics pair really well together.

 

[Azhcristokos]

But I'm bot really sure how you can integrate priesthood or merchant guilds into a playstyle?

Exalted Priesthood is for unity rush builds and it serves that purpose very well. I haven't tried the other one yet though.

 

[Badesumofu]

I like to take it as my 3rd perk. As my society grows, so has my bureaucracy

Yeah same, that extra housing is more significant around the time you get the third civic than right at the start. It pairs quite well with Shared Burdens since those extra administrators now cost the same upkeep as workers would. I'm finding Shared Burdens/Mechanist with BB as third civic pretty strong. Fully automated luxury space communism. Robocialism. Anyway - the biggest drawback to Shared Burdens is that workers cost quite a bit more consumer goods than they would under Decent Conditions - with Mechanist most of your workers are robots anyway.

It also gives you a cheap way to deal with unemployment - they provide Unity and don't cause problems. Planets tend to just stop growing once they reach a certain size and you can just forget about them at that point. Would be good if there was a way to remove specific planets from the outliner, though.

So I like it quite a bit. I'd probably go with Nobles for an Authoritarian empire, though. Producing 5 stability is really good. Technocracy is okay too, but I find it's pretty easy to produce all the science and unity I want anyway. Also Technocracy is incompatible with Shared Burdens so it really lacks a niche compared to BB and AE.

 

[Less2]

Communal + slavery/robot slavery is good enough to cover housing needs (gene ascension for a further -10%). So with that I don't see the need for Byzantine Bureaucracy much. Past a certain point needing even less housing just doesn't help since you are limited by # of jobs.

Stability from aristocrats is just too good. The fact that production bonuses improve your mineral:alloy ratio makes stacking production modifiers on your Ecumenopolis too important.

 

[Atreides]

So far I have played Nobles, Technocrats and BB. I found Nobles to be the most overall useful whether as a first pick or 3rd. Stability is bonus production. More production leads to more production.

Technocrats are great for a tech boost, which is what they should be for, so they are a solid choice if that is what you want.

Byzantine with my slaver empire was also solid. The amenities and housing reduction made the slaving ramp up easier to manage. At a guess though, Nobles would have been better for raw efficiency.

 

[TheGrouch91]

It's great. It allows you to skip unity buildings and produces both unity and amenities without any input resources (besides the fact that they're rulers). If you are an autocratic empire and run stratified society the extra 2 rulers have a similar effect to a noble but produce more themselves. Also needing less amenities means more happiness which leads to more stability.

I picked it 3rd in my inward perfection/agrarian idyll game and the housing actually blew me away. The combination of those civics allows you to build up all resource districts and still have enough housing.

 

[Incompetent]

I took it as third pick. The housing bonus is amazing, and the building it unlocks is decent. The amenities effect though seems to be overkill, since with so many pops on each planet, you're pretty much forced to make a bunch of upgraded commercial zones just to employ everyone (or have a mass of slave/droid servants), and then amenities cease to be an issue. Probably that side of the civic is more useful early on, when you're colonizing planets of middling habitability and you don't the population to spare for low-level amenities work.

 

[Alastor]

Not sure if the numbers are right, the whole system is still rather opaque, but I prefer to play with nobility. +5 stability, +10 by just upgrading your capital building seems too good to pass to me.

 

[FleetingRain]

I don't think the flavor really matches tbh, but it's my only complaint.

 

[The Boz]

One of the better non-defining civics.

 

[rcasale]

Aristocrats also gives you an extra building for +1 noble jobs. And nobles are really good; each one gives you +5 stability (& +5 amenities). That's a fair amount of extra productivity.

It's probably a matter of taste, but I prefer aristocrats over byzantine. I can still build the same amount of raw resource districts (since those are limited by deposits & planet size), so I only end up with fewer builldings (since I can't get as many pops as I could with byzantine). But I can compensate for that by leaving planets mostly for raw resources and doing my manufactoring, research and refining on habitats and ecumenopolis'.
Both housing and amenities are also a lot less problematic, if you are using (servitude) robots or slaves. (And I usually have both)
I guess byzantine is a lot better, if you are using better living standards.

Technocracy is very strong in the early game, where you struggle a bit to afford extra labs. If your strategy involves rushing a few key techs, technocracy is a really good choice.
But I'm bot really sure how you can integrate priesthood or merchant guilds into a playstyle?

Yeah, I was first attracted to Aristocratic Elite because I liked the idea of Nobles, plus the Stratified Economy, but then I considered Byzantine to be more practical because the building allowed for more jobs and output.
But! Now that I've played a few games and have seen just how big planets can get, that +5 stability from the nobles does a huge amount to increase productivity. And the +5 stability is useful all game.