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NEXUS12

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I've got around 600 hours in HOI4, and one thing that continuously bugs me is how much I don't know what I am doing when it comes to the navy.

I have MtG and all other expansions, but MtG has just made me even more confused when it comes to navy optimisation.

Currently, when I play as the UK, USA, Japan, my strategy is just outbuild the enemy fleet and naval bomb them into oblivion. It always works.

It gives me very little incentive to sit and study how navies are actually supposed to operate.

So with that being said, are there any sort of 'noob tips' that are vital to building a well balanced fleet with a major power like the UK?

Or do people just build hundereds of ships and literally outgun the enemy? Would like to hear peoples thoughts/advice
 

BeauNiddle

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If you're asking for what people do as opposed to tutorials:

For the UK:

Gather all my ships in scarpa. Escort Carrier & all Heavy cruisers sit the war out and get put in storage fleet. All subs to separate fleets. Really rubbish DD1s get put in the convoy protection fleet. Build 5-10 extra naval yards at some point. Make sure all carriers have max loadout of 50/50 split fighters/bombers

Best carrier in Med or China fleet. 2nd best in the one I didn't chose for first. worst carriers to home fleet. All BCs to med fleet. All BBs split amongst the home, med & china fleet. Fill out China and Med fleet with at least 4 light ships per heavy. Any remaining light ships go to home fleet (they will be joined by new builds so I don't care about being below 4 per heavy)

Whilst my starting ship build finishes I research better float planes and then update the light scout cruiser design to be best float plane loadout possible to max the detection. Add sonar to max sub detection. Once I have the tech refit all my current scout light cruisers to new design.

Set up the fleets with 10 subs per fleet. Strike forces as setup above. Scout task force as 2 scout light cruiser + 4 DDs (According to meta you can get away with just one scout cruiser but I prefer to have a few spare ships). Setup your production line with max production of scout cruiser, max production of best DDs you can, 5 navals on convoys, then a special production group of something you want (main fleet light cruisers, extra dds, etc.) and then allocate maximum unused factories to convoys (that way any newly built naval yards at least do something.

As soon as the war starts (or mid 1939 if I remember) block the channel for ship usage. Block the red sea for convoy usage. Maybe block the middle of the atlantic if I feel like it.

Med fleet with strike force + 3 scout fleets + 1 sub force patrols red sea, Alexandria. The idea is to stop the Italians supporting Ethiopia and to keep my fleet safe whilst I trim any Italian forces he's willing to risk.

China fleet just sits in Singapore. It might not even have a scout fleet at this point depending on how many ships I have spare. I should still have a few years before they are needed.

Home fleet has any remaining scout task forces, subs + all convoy protection fleets and covers as much area as possible EXCEPT the channel (I play vs AI so I know they will flood it with bombers and I wont need to defend against a naval invasion)

Just expand slowly as my task forces come of the production line. Mostly focus on the Med until I can cover the whole Eastern half. Spread to the whole Med as my land forces push forward.

This setup mostly works against the AI. When you start playing against Japan your forces may or may not win. But hopefully by then you'll have sunk the German and Italian forces so you can send reinforcements. Research 1940 carriers (or 44 if you can be bothered to wait for ahead of time penalties) and send them all to your china fleet. Other than that I only ever build light ships.

Just keep an eye on ship repairs. If you split up the strike force they will die in parts. If you don't split them up they will spend the whole war in the dry dock.
 
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Thumping_Fox

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All you really have to do is spam sub 3s, put them on always attack and they will wipe the floor with any navy.

After a year of MTG, devs haven't fixed this, it makes the whole naval system redundant as all you need is brain dead sub spam.
 

sekelsenmat

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So with that being said, are there any sort of 'noob tips' that are vital to building a well balanced fleet with a major power like the UK?

Or do people just build hundereds of ships and literally outgun the enemy? Would like to hear peoples thoughts/advice

You want 2 seaplane tenders in "never engage" and on patrol to find enemy fleets: Any cruiser hull, 3 or more Seaplane modules. Fastest engine available.

In the same fleet (but not task-force), have a death-stack assigned to "Strike" mission.

Assign somewhere, where you want to kill the enemy fleets. Get huge amounts of naval intel so you can see where the enemy is deployed via Recon planes and Infiltration.

Build radar and assign air cover.

The most powerful ship seems to be a CL filled with DP secondaries, but I try to build historical ships because otherwise the naval game is too easy:

As Germany fast Battleships and Subs
As Italy a Big Destroyer filled with DP guns, Torpedo Boats (small destroyer for escort/ASW), subs and Battleships
As Japan: Carriers and CLs

You might get unlucky and hit an enemy death-stack and get totalled, so it might be better to not assign the Strike+Patrol force without microing it as an Axis power.

As an Allied power I guess the naval game should be trivial, you can probably build anything in large numbers and win.
 
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Crixus

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All you really have to do is spam sub 3s, put them on always attack and they will wipe the floor with any navy.

After a year of MTG, devs haven't fixed this, it makes the whole naval system redundant as all you need is brain dead sub spam.

They did "increased research cost on 1940 and 1944 submarine hulls" & "increased research cost on torpedo module upgrades" the latest patch, thats about it.
 

sterrius

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All you really have to do is spam sub 3s, put them on always attack and they will wipe the floor with any navy.

After a year of MTG, devs haven't fixed this, it makes the whole naval system redundant as all you need is brain dead sub spam.

i stopped playing again for a while so i don´t know how patchs changed things since mtg launch.
, but you do can find Sub3´s with 1936 cruisers as long you avoid Deep Water regions.

Uk can use the Panama Channel +US -> Canada coast using the artic to completely avoid deep sea zones.
and can use a Canada airfield to support the patrols.
 

NEXUS12

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Hey all,

Some super useful info here, thanks very much!

I'm not sure what it is about the naval side of the game that I just haven't been able to pick up thus far. I feel like I have land combat locked down but unless you are invading Britain or playing Japan, naval just seems like an afterthought, even with MtG it just doesn't seem that important. I imagine it is different in multiplayer though, which I haven't spent much time in to be honest.
 

ecpgieicg

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Currently, when I play as the UK, USA, Japan, my strategy is just outbuild the enemy fleet and naval bomb them into oblivion. It always works.

It gives me very little incentive to sit and study how navies are actually supposed to operate.

You are going to need a mod.

Vanilla HOI4 doesn't work. That's what I've found for a long while now.

Turn Expert AI on at a minimum. When you have the appetite for a difference experience than vanilla HOI4, perhaps try Black ICE/Total War/Hearts of Oak. I don't think any of them changes the naval AI more than Expert AI does but they could change other aspects that influence the naval game.

Otherwise, the naval game is trivial as you find. AI navies don't stand a chance. They best they can do is to (correctly) avoid contact while concentrating their fleet. The naval AI needs better build strategy, better taskforce management, nation based AI and the whole naval combat probably needs some re-balancing.

Having said that, if you managed to conquer most of the world as Japan without US being in the war and without war against UK + France. Don't complain that you don't have a challenging naval matchup against UK or US when you do enter war against them at a time of your choosing. Similarly, if your strategy as Germany is to blockade UK into submission, after the blockade, don't complain Royal Navy is a push over. (Granted, the blockade is trivially easy to obtain and that's the problem with AI.) There are just strategic situations that should by nature trivialize the naval aspects of the game.

Or do people just build hundereds of ships and literally outgun the enemy? Would like to hear peoples thoughts/advice

Not for me.

I prefer 2 good-enough ships early over 1 best perfect ship 2 years later. (Although, unfortunately, both work.)

With Black ICE, the cost can scale up a lot with more options with range and such. Germany for example cannot afford the chromium for late game modules. (In Black ICE, chromium is required.) If your navy is too weak, even the invasion on Norway/Sweden can't be done. So no chromium -> more wait; more wait -> no chromium. It is one of the small things that reward a tailored build strategy vs best and the shiniest

Hundreds of ships are also not doable due to the 3 dockyard per ship restriction. Can't remember what vanilla does. Black ICE applies that restriction to DD and SS as well as heavier ships. Also again with Black ICE, internal resource trade (siphoning resources back to capital) cost a LOT of transports -- I need 3 thousands as Japan by the beginning of 1941. Troop supplies cost a lot too. So that further inhibits the quantity on your navy.

There is a capital ship primacy and with the right bonus modifiers primacy in CVs as well. So my fleets are centered on concentration of CVs and BBs/BCs. I then have good AA cruisers and DDs. (When you have them, you feel enemy CV and naval aviation being trivial*; but when you don't....) I do a build strategy where I queue the expensive ships early -- and not go to naval wars without them and then build cruisers and DDs when I have the opportunity. Germany in particular needs non-stop sub building early game. With BICE, Allies are capable of attriting your sub force. Japan needs a lot of transports. With both, I downgrade range among BB/BC/CV to match that of cruisers to reduce cost. I also calculate armor with later bonuses ahead of time to reduce the need for armor which in turn reduces cost. I let the Ironside trait that I expect to gain on my admirals to balance out Piercing bonuses from Shell designs. High piercing is never needed against AI but in any case, I wouldn't invest in super heavy guns. I like >30kt for role-playing. (Faster heavy ships means faster strike TF which means real benefits. But 1 kt down doesn't really hurt.)

At the moment, I make MIN_NAVAL_EQUIPMENT_CONVERSION_IC_COST_FACTOR = 0.05. (Vanilla HOI4 has it at 0.2. BICE at 0.1.) It means you are able to add/swap AA modules cheaply -- meaning that the standard for capital ship is to defer radar/AA/etc modules for later refit, which was the case in history. You are also a lot less bottlenecked by naval XP, which for ship designs makes no sense. I find that much better for immersion but not enough to change overall build strategy -- you still build the same ships with the same gun, engine, range, etc in the same sequence. With refit cost factor at 0.2, it means you may not build AA on your big ships, you make up with fleet wide AA and make sure your big ships dont operate alone.

* examples:
20200611095205_1.jpg20200614024025_1.jpg20200608125651_1.jpg

EDIT: links
 
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Crixus

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I feel like I have land combat locked down but unless you are invading Britain or playing Japan, naval just seems like an afterthought, even with MtG it just doesn't seem that important. I imagine it is different in multiplayer though, which I haven't spent much time in to be honest.

Navy is only important if you are trading overseas for resources, invading or being invaded by sea.