So how come the state of Egypt was not the dominant force in the Classical period?

[keynes2.0]

Ok, please go out and find support for Rome importing more than 30-40 million modii,

Wait, is that what I'm supposed to be arguing? I honestly lost track.

Okay, Temin, the Roman Market Economy. I dont have a page number because this is just offhand recollection. He says 60 million modii.

 

[keynes2.0]

Okay, I misremembered the Temin passage.

Edit. And the argument against 60 million modii is not just because you need to be sloppy with your sources to get there, it also have something with the fact that you need a population around two million for it to be plausible, something which nobody is willing to argue.

If you have consumption of 40 modii per capita and you have losses due to waste and spoiled stores (which are necessary if you want protection against bad harvests), then it would be a population of less then 1.5 million and possibly much less, which does fit into the range of uncertainty.

 

[keynes2.0]

Really, a 50% increase of the max estimates of the population of Rome just to get the numbers of a bad source to fit? Then I guess you just need to find somebody that will support a grain export of 40 million modii from Africa and you are good to go. I mean you just need to quadruple the largest estimated export number from Africa.

Oh please leave it out. You said no source existed, I produced the source easily and now you are furious at the source for existing. Grow up.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Look, I'm just a country boy from Texas who had to google Modii to remember it was about the size of a peck. What do I know about Roman shipping tonnage regarding grain shipments?

I do know words.

You quoted facts and numbers that were proven incorrect. You used sources you could not verify, books which Josalfar had at hand. You used what an economist might refer to as a 'rounding error', and got caught.

You are an intelligent soul, Keynes, but you can't be right all the time. You lost the point and the set, but the game goes on.

 

[AegonVLLI]

Octavius makes Egypt the personal fief of Caesar. Caesar becomes Pharaoh, this is the font of Caesar's Divinity. All profits from Egypt henceforth go directly into Caesar's pocket, and the Emperor's grain ships are mandatory for keeping Rome happy with free bread. As long as Rome is happy, the Emperor is safe; usually.

Yeah?
All I'm saying is that Egypt's fleet during the battle of Antium isn't really evidence for Egypt's supposed naval might or for its tradition as a seafaring empire...

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Yeah?
All I'm saying is that Egypt's fleet during the battle of Antium isn't really evidence for Egypt's supposed naval might or for its tradition as a seafaring empire...

Actium.

I was unaware Egypt had a reputation as a naval power or a seafaring empire. Their greatest naval victory* was defeating The Sea People at the mouth of the Nile. Egypt's naval power is riverine, not marine. They sought to control the Nile, not the Med.

* Of course, their greatest naval defeat was that time they tried to float their chariots across the Red Sea, and were smited by Cecil B. DeMille.

 

[AegonVLLI]

Actium.

I was unaware Egypt had a reputation as a naval power or a seafaring empire. Their greatest naval victory* was defeating The Sea People at the mouth of the Nile. Egypt's naval power is riverine, not marine. They sought to control the Nile, not the Med.

* Of course, their greatest naval defeat was that time they tried to float their chariots across the Red Sea, and were smited by Cecil B. DeMille.

Yeah, Actium
And that's exactly what I'm saying. This one battle is no indication for any maritime might...

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Look, I'm just a country boy from Texas who had to google Modii to remember it was about the size of a peck. What do I know about Roman shipping tonnage regarding grain shipments?

Yeah I got to use google twice, first for a Modii and then for a peck. You country boys from Texas have it better than you think.